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 Post subject: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:04 pm 
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From subways to Penn Stations, NYC's transit is a mess. Who is to blame for NYC's transit breakdown?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... _mess.html

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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:56 pm 
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kamnet wrote:
From subways to Penn Stations, NYC's transit is a mess. Who is to blame for NYC's transit breakdown?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... _mess.html


Cuomo and DiBlasio - I don't need to read the article to tell you that (though I have read it already). We need to take the MTA back from the state, along with the associated spending. At this point a divorce of the New York, Richmond, Kings, Queens, Bronx, and possibly Westchester and Nassau counties from the rest of the state would seem almost reasonable to me. Penn Station is it's own issue due to its multiple parties, but if you are a resident of the city of New York, it's a headache best avoided.

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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Naturally Slate would whine about Trump's alleged lack of interest in urban problems...

Quote:
Republicans are not particularly focused on urban issues, because that’s not where their base is—is an infrastructure bill with robust federal investment in transit


but there was already a $305 billion five-year infrastructure bill, to fund roads, bridges, and rail lines, signed into law by Obama less than 2 years ago.

And then there was the famous 2009 $819 billion economic "stimulus", remember, back when the Dems controlled both the House and Senate? An inexcusable missed opportunity to invest in transit:

Quote:
Representative Michael Capuano, a Somerville Democrat on the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, said he has watched with frustration as spending for rapid transit and rail dropped during negotiations over the bill. For example, after an initial burst of enthusiasm for inter-city rail projects, the amount was reduced to $5 billion and then to $1.1 billion, he said.

The bill has $30 billion for roads and bridges and $12 billion for rapid transit, with decisions on specific projects to be made by state and local officials. But that's far less than originally sought by some Democrats, and could make it more difficult to fund some Massachusetts projects, such as work on roads, bridges, and the MBTA system, or a proposed extension of the commuter rail line from Lowell to Manchester, N.H.

"Priorities changed," Capuano said. "Someone says, 'How about food stamps, how about early childhood education?' "

Capuano said he still supported the bill because it provides much-needed money for an array of interests, but said he would have preferred some of the tax cuts were replaced by transportation spending. He compared $1.1 billion for rail projects with $145 billion to provide $500-per-taxpayer rebates. "I know it is politically popular, but I don't think it will stimulate the economy," Capuano said of the tax relief.

The chairman of the transportation panel's subcommittee on highways and transit, Peter DeFazio of Oregon, became so angry about the reduction in transportation spending that he recently accused Obama's top economic adviser, Lawrence Summers, of arguing against such funds because he "hates infrastructure."


I'm not here to defend Trump, but for crying out loud...

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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:20 am 
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So what point is there to whine about what happened 7 years ago when there's an opportunity to do something about it now? When do you stop kicking the can and just start doing something?

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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Did you even read the article you linked to?

"You mentioned investment, but I read on your Twitter feed that you don’t think investment is the problem per se or rather that more funding would not necessarily solve the problems.

One of the challenges that I think advocates of the system have is that there is an idea that if you throw more money at the MTA then things will magically be fixed. But the MTA has access to a lot of money. They have a five-year, $30 billion capital plan, and while some people say the proper amount would be closer to $50 billion, the underlying concern is that the MTA can’t spend money very well."

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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Maybe they should asks the british on how to keep victorian relic well alive today.

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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:21 am 
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YNM wrote:
Maybe they should asks the british on how to keep victorian relic well alive today.

Simple, we run it 24/7, and we maintain it 24/7. Many passengers on the British railways don't realise how much work is actually going on to keep them on the move; because of my job, I get to see a portion of it all, but no where near as much as what does actually take place.

There's a reason we have a converted HST running around the country recording the track (and other parameters) constantly :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:08 am 
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Pilot wrote:
Simple, we run it 24/7, and we maintain it 24/7. Many passengers on the British railways don't realise how much work is actually going on to keep them on the move; because of my job, I get to see a portion of it all, but no where near as much as what does actually take place.

There's a reason we have a converted HST running around the country recording the track (and other parameters) constantly :wink:

We just make new ones and "destroy" the old :lol:

No, seriously. A lot of stretch along (slightly) mountainous routes are realigned. Only some remains as it was since the earliest days due to it's truly mind-boggling surrounding terrain.

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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:05 am 
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YNM wrote:
Maybe they should asks the british on how to keep victorian relic well alive today.

We already know the privatize the profits/socialize the costs model. It is a sick government that needs to sell off its assets to the private sector because private sector lobbyists are more effective at wielding the levers of government power.

Anyway, the article is terrible.
Slate wrote:
Plus there is the mess that is Penn Station, which has left suburban commuters bracing for a “summer of agony” as repairs get underway to restore service to its old status quo

Of course they couldn't be asked to do enough research to know that the "repairs" are actually related to the reconfiguration necessary for East Side Access


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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:29 am 
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Thorg wrote:
YNM wrote:
Maybe they should asks the british on how to keep victorian relic well alive today.

We already know the privatize the profits/socialize the costs model. It is a sick government that needs to sell off its assets to the private sector because private sector lobbyists are more effective at wielding the levers of government power.

As a result of Privatisation, the British railways are carrying more passengers than they ever did when nationalised, they're actually turning a profit for the private company, that would be unlikely to be made if they were nationalised, and the British railways are now some of the least subsidised per passenger-km in Europe, meaning the British Tax payer is footing less of the bill for running the Railways than our Counterparts on the continent.

We're re-opening railways that were closed in the '60s because they were "unprofitable and unviable", as the railway companies of today can make them viable (a key example being the borders route in Scotland). A comprehensive list of lines reopened can be found here(Whilst not every line listed here has been reopened since Privatisation, a large number have). So please, tell me how sick, and evil the model is, especially when there is still a large government involvement in our current system, and the Government still own the tracks and stations themselves (see Network Rail)

Sources:
Passengers per year:
Image
Rail Subsidies:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:43 am 
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Thorg wrote:
YNM wrote:
Maybe they should asks the british on how to keep victorian relic well alive today.

We already know the privatize the profits/socialize the costs model. It is a sick government that needs to sell off its assets to the private sector because private sector lobbyists are more effective at wielding the levers of government power.

Well, I'm not commenting on the governing system - I'm commenting on how they actually do it. I mean, come on, British Rail, Railtrack, National Rail, all deals with the same things differently, yet it still works (infrastructure up and running. Oh wait, Beeching.) .

Though, as Pilot had shown, competition (and local pressure) can make things go better. But, don't forget to look up London Underground - in it's own almost since inception (UERL to today's TfL Underground), yet infra-wise it works, and too often it's the only mean to go 'round London (apart from Ringways time ofc).


EDIT : If it's anything, perhaps Rail Investment Strategies (edit : alright it's not by that name now) would be interesting to look at.

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Last edited by YNM on Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Pilot wrote:
and the Government still own the tracks and stations themselves

There you have it, the British government soaks up all the below the rail costs (socialize the costly and complex aspects). Your graph is nothing more than an accounting trick that obscures that the UK ticket subsidy is only smaller because it only needs to help cover above the rail costs of the operating companies. And of course, that British passengers are much more willing to pay higher fares ( compared to NYC, around twice as much ).


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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Thorg wrote:
And of course, that British passengers are much more willing to pay higher fares ( compared to NYC, around twice as much ).

Is that true is it? Is that why I can find a return trip from London to Glasgow, at convenient times for the business travel tomorrow for a total of £130 (a round trip of roughly 800 miles). I then looked at a New York to Washington return trip for tomorrow, again, convenient times for business travellers, it came to $312 (equal to £244), what's even more interesting is that a round trip from NY to Washington is only about 450 miles! So please, tell me how much higher fares are :roll:

Sources:
Attachment:
EUS - GLC Tomorrow.PNG [32.58 KiB]
Not downloaded yet

Attachment:
NY - Washington tomorrow.PNG
NY - Washington tomorrow.PNG [ 27.05 KiB | Viewed 25 times ]

Attachment:
London - Glas vs Wash NY Distance.PNG
London - Glas vs Wash NY Distance.PNG [ 53.33 KiB | Viewed 25 times ]


Let me guess, these are fake as well...

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 Post subject: Re: NYC's Transit Crisis
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Thorg wrote:
Pilot wrote:
and the Government still own the tracks and stations themselves

There you have it, the British government soaks up all the below the rail costs (socialize the costly and complex aspects). ... And of course, that British passengers are much more willing to pay higher fares ( compared to NYC, around twice as much ).

Well, most (if not all) infras are vital to the nation, no ? Things like that deserves proper dressing from the gov't. Aren't the interstates run by the government there ? They don't even generate revenue... true as with every other roads (bitish motorways, probably bar M6 Toll) but I believe rails are also on the list, as with canals and water passage, other things...

Again, I'm not here to talk about how they run it. What are they running on is what I'm asking. Infras need updates, upgrades, maintenance, replacement. Not as free as anyone can think they are.

EDIT : If still not clear, more to the point, it's not who to blame ; but how to do it. Close the thing for some month ? Operate at reduced rate for some years ? Partial closures ? I mean, London Underground did need some closures I think ?

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