Graphics

ken52787 · Post by **ken52787** » 23 Mar 2003 17:35

I tried this one for practice on keepin polys low for using bump mapping, and also for texturing practice. It's 29 polys.

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 23 Mar 2003 17:42

good .. very good .. btw. I think .. if it wil be a house for people it could have a bit other windows ... like this:

Code: Select all

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ken52787 · Post by **ken52787** » 23 Mar 2003 17:52

I didn't plan on using this model, its just practice. If I really tried, I'm pretty sure I could do much better than this. This has a bunch of problems (like top of the side, the bumpmapping texture runs out and it shows). BTW, its this building (missing some details)

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 23 Mar 2003 17:58

ken52787 wrote:I didn't plan on using this model, its just practice. If I really tried, I'm pretty sure I could do much better than this. This has a bunch of problems (like top of the side, the bumpmapping texture runs out and it shows). BTW, its this building (missing some details)

of course ... but even it is very simple graphic it is a big + from me ... coz I don't have skills to create graphics even simply like this ...
really great jib

SveinT · Post by **SveinT** » 23 Mar 2003 17:58

ken52787 wrote:I didn't plan on using this model, its just practice. If I really tried, I'm pretty sure I could do much better than this. This has a bunch of problems (like top of the side, the bumpmapping texture runs out and it shows). BTW, its this building (missing some details)

Well, I think you can make the chimneys too...kinda nice details even though they will double the ply count

Keep it coming though, maybe we should setup a gfx "showcase/progress" page soon?

Lilman424 · Post by **Lilman424** » 23 Mar 2003 18:23

You mean like the the "Finished Graphics" topic for TTD graphics? That's what this was supposed to be....but it went off topic.....in a good way....

SveinT · Post by **SveinT** » 23 Mar 2003 18:39

Lilman424 wrote:You mean like the the "Finished Graphics" topic for TTD graphics? That's what this was supposed to be....but it went off topic.....in a good way....

Well, I meant more of a website. I'm gonna mock up some stuff now and ask Owen what he thinks...maybe it could be the official if it turns out well...if not someone else could give it a shot. Owen at least said that he had little time and people were free to send in "samples"...

Hellfire · Post by **Hellfire** » 23 Mar 2003 19:00

Today, I found out that with Lightwave 6, the .LWO format changed from type "LWOB" to "LWO2" (check out the first 12 bytes of a lwo file). My library was written in 2001 for Lightwave 5.6, so it only supports LWOB files.

I'm changing it asap to support both the LWOB and LWO2 file formats.

Lucky for me, Lightwave 7 supports an "export to Lightwave 5" function

, so I can still test support for the older LWOB format.

Post by **uzurpator** » 23 Mar 2003 20:02

Question:

What will be the game resolution for textures?

IMO 64 pixels per one tile side seems reasonable. This would be 4 pixels per meter (assuming 16m is length of a single tile side). This measurement is important if we want textures to be made...

With my measurement it would be 4 pixels per meter, 11 pixels per story.

SveinT · Post by **SveinT** » 23 Mar 2003 20:06

Adam K. wrote:Question:

What will be the game resolution for textures?

IMO 64 pixels per one tile side seems reasonable. This would be 4 pixels per meter (assuming 16m is length of a single tile side). This measurement is important if we want textures to be made...

With my measurement it would be 4 pixels per meter, 11 pixels per story.

Sounds good yes, will look a bit flushed if zoomed really close upon, but nobody would use that view when PLAYING the game anyway....

Also, just a random thought popping up in my mind. Texture compression...that will be implemented right? We could maybe have even higher textures then without too much resource hog, or rein could make something that decrease the quality while zoomed out. Honestly I don't have much knowledge about this...

Post by **uzurpator** » 23 Mar 2003 20:25

could someone make a house using the attached texture?

Just remove the .zip in the name.

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 23 Mar 2003 20:43

Hellfire wrote:Because of a lack of code to work on (rein --> hint!), I also created a low poly version of rein's avatar.

I hope it's not too late to congratulate you on the wonderful work done here. Also, the Question asked below, I'll add that to the FAQ, so hopefully we get an answer there

rein · Post by **rein** » 23 Mar 2003 20:57

Adam K. wrote:Question:

What will be the game resolution for textures?

IMO 64 pixels per one tile side seems reasonable. This would be 4 pixels per meter (assuming 16m is length of a single tile side). This measurement is important if we want textures to be made...

With my measurement it would be 4 pixels per meter, 11 pixels per story.

every object must have only 1 texture, not bigger than 256x256 i think (anyway texture size doesn't matter from the core side, just a power of 2)

SveinT · Post by **SveinT** » 23 Mar 2003 21:38

rein wrote:
Adam K. wrote:Question:

What will be the game resolution for textures?

IMO 64 pixels per one tile side seems reasonable. This would be 4 pixels per meter (assuming 16m is length of a single tile side). This measurement is important if we want textures to be made...

With my measurement it would be 4 pixels per meter, 11 pixels per story.
every object must have only 1 texture, not bigger than 256x256 i think (anyway texture size doesn't matter from the core side, just a power of 2)

Still, noone has answered my question, but I dunno if you're the one to ask...anyways, can the MAX texture coordinates be used? We have to make coordinates somehow and I have no idea how this really works...I guess it's a matter which isn't in a rush though...

Lilman424 · Post by **Lilman424** » 23 Mar 2003 22:31

Here's the first object I made without using a tutorial. It has 188 polys in 2 surfaces. As you can see, no textures. If anyone wants the source, it's for lightwave so....just ask me.

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 23 Mar 2003 22:36

I have questions ...
If it is for lightwave ... so can use it with Gmax editor ??
which one editor you use ??

Lilman424 · Post by **Lilman424** » 23 Mar 2003 22:38

don't know about GMax

I use Lightwave......

Post by **uzurpator** » 23 Mar 2003 22:41

rein wrote: every object must have only 1 texture, not bigger than 256x256 i think (anyway texture size doesn't matter from the core side, just a power of 2)

I'm afraid that this is not the best approach... If you want to use a single texture than it will be required to deform it to make it work on a single object - this makes creating skins very difficult and time consuming. Also - you will have to specify how to project a texture onto an object. And you have to remember that you have to make sure that sharp edge will be in the projection otherwise you will create the "stripes" effect - very ugly one. Also - this is very inefficent texture wise - every darn building will have to have a single texture for it - if we stick to 256x256x32 than 500 buildings will require 64 mb textures - and this game is supposed to be open I heard...

The one-texture per object is fine for trees and such but for complex objects such as cantlever or girder bridges it will be a horror to work with.

OTOH - if we want a series of houses that just have different roof that you will only make a few definitions with just roof texture replaced. Also - with a set of textures making new objects will just require to mix them in a proper way and not make difficult to make skin...

BTW - my question was related to other thing though. How many pixels is it for a texture for a single tile - this resolution sets sizes for all textures that are supposed to be painted. If we assume that tile is 16x16m and uses 64x64 pixel texture then we know that area of 4x4 pixels is 1x1 m - very important for making all art for the game to avoid objects drawn with different scale.

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 24 Mar 2003 07:52

Important point you have there, Adam! In SimCity 3000, some artists seem to have used different scale for the textures which made some buildings look really bad. Something about trees, you know there is a memory saving way to define trees? I think such trees will be in the Lightwave library too. Thye are just like those paper trees that you put into a +-shape. By the rendering of the graphics they appear as normal trees though.

Hellfire · Post by **Hellfire** » 24 Mar 2003 09:50

I have some comments here:

Adam K. wrote:
rein wrote: every object must have only 1 texture, not bigger than 256x256 i think (anyway texture size doesn't matter from the core side, just a power of 2)
I'm afraid that this is not the best approach... If you want to use a single texture than it will be required to deform it to make it work on a single object - this makes creating skins very difficult and time consuming. Also - you will have to specify how to project a texture onto an object. And you have to remember that you have to make sure that sharp edge will be in the projection otherwise you will create the "stripes" effect - very ugly one. Also - this is very inefficent texture wise - every darn building will have to have a single texture for it - if we stick to 256x256x32 than 500 buildings will require 64 mb textures - and this game is supposed to be open I heard...

In OpenGL, when you draw a polygon, you can specify for each vertex, a corresponding location on a texture map. Not only does this allow for better positioning of the textures, you can also put 7 different textures in one big file, which will result in faster render times, because only one texture has to be processed. As far as modelling for TT2/TE/TM is concerned, we will have to make some editor (or a text-file like format for model files that is user-editable) to map a texture on the models. When I am home tonight (it's 10:45 AM here), I'll make a sample using the "Rein's Avatar" model.

Further: 500 buildings maybe realistic for the game, but 500 different buildings is probably not. The size of a texture really doesn't matter for OpenGL. As rein said: 256x256 is a maximum, and that maximum is not even fixed. In theory, texture files can have any size. Remember: each texture has to be loaded only once!

The one-texture per object is fine for trees and such but for complex objects such as cantlever or girder bridges it will be a horror to work with.

Not really, you can draw just one beam of steel, and use that part of the texture for every steel beam in the bridge!

OTOH - if we want a series of houses that just have different roof that you will only make a few definitions with just roof texture replaced. Also - with a set of textures making new objects will just require to mix them in a proper way and not make difficult to make skin...

True, I think... Not really sure, but I think you're right.

BTW - my question was related to other thing though. How many pixels is it for a texture for a single tile - this resolution sets sizes for all textures that are supposed to be painted. If we assume that tile is 16x16m and uses 64x64 pixel texture then we know that area of 4x4 pixels is 1x1 m - very important for making all art for the game to avoid objects drawn with different scale.

If I'm not mistaken, rein's current implementation uses a 256x256 map for 4x4 tiles, that is 64x64 per tile.

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