The "Should Have Been Discussed at the Meeting" Po

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aarona
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The "Should Have Been Discussed at the Meeting" Po

Post by aarona » 08 Jun 2006 15:19

First of all let me introduce myself...
I've been working on the project for a couple of weeks now, and I've started coding. Before I can go much further there are a few issues which need to be discussed, and this is what the meeting was supposed to be about...Except for the fact that no one turned up :!:

1. Licensing
--- We need to know which license we are going to go with because this will effect which libraries we can bind/use in the program. For example, if we use a GPL based library we are stuck with GPL. (LGPL on the other hand enables use of a library (providing its dynamically linked) without any such restrictions).

Suggestion: New thread, research, poll and/or meeting vote.

2. XML config files
--- Although the Design Documentation (ver 0.1.03 - Section 1.3) states we should use "Spreadsheets" or "Tab delimited files", I would strongly suggest useage of XML as our config file standard.
Here is some sample code which shows how easy it is to use XML provided you know all the things inside <> and ""'s, which would be provided in examples or documentation.

Code: Select all

<vehicle="Train">Choo-Choo
	<type>Steam</type>
	<speed>100</speed>
</vehicle>
Suggestion: New thread (or continue the one from years ago...), poll, demonstration files

3. The Design Documentation
--- We need a version 1.0.0 :!: :!:
It also needs to be designed with practicalities in mind. Not just ideas but programming concepts. (There are some attempts made, which seem promising until you actually try to implement it). If you keep in mind things can be loaded by XML files, then there is no need to go into too much details. Also lets not forget that there are gonna be more than trains in this game :wink:

Suggestion: Someone finish it (Up to beta version)! Community consultation (including from programmers) followed by ver 1.0 release.

4. Programming
--- I've made some head-way into the boring core of the game and would like to share with you all some general tips.
a. Get a good IDE/compiler
b. Comment your code :!: (This is a hopefully a community project)
c. Use doxygen to produce beautiful documentation on you code.
d. Compile to CHM to make it even nicer :wink:

Suggestion: Need graphics engine, need some starter models (i.e. one train, truck, plane, etc), need some starter XML files.

5. Enthusiasm
--- I know this project has been going on for years and years and we've gotten people who come on board, make a bit of noise, promise the world and leave after a few weeks. I would hate to do this alone :(

Suggestion: Lets get acitve, lets get talking, stay positive people!!

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Re: The "Should Have Been Discussed at the Meeting"

Post by Purno » 08 Jun 2006 17:14

aarona wrote: 5. Enthusiasm
--- I know this project has been going on for years and years and we've gotten people who come on board, make a bit of noise, promise the world and leave after a few weeks. I would hate to do this alone :(

Suggestion: Lets get acitve, lets get talking, stay positive people!!
Well, since I am not a programmer, nor a 3D artist, I feel like there's not much I can do (yet).
That's also why I can't really comment on the rest of your post.
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Re: The "Should Have Been Discussed at the Meeting"

Post by eis_os » 08 Jun 2006 17:37

Hi

I am not directly involved in this project but I am a source if you need ideas programming wise. :wink: *
aarona wrote: 2. XML config files

Code: Select all

<vehicle="Train">Choo-Choo
	<type>Steam</type>
	<speed>100</speed>
</vehicle>
That really depends on how the engine works and how much different logic a designer will be able to do. XML can get quite complicate if you want to have things like variational cargo display, ages or other stuff selecting different sprites. And you should create a tag for the name of the object and not mix it.

Code: Select all

<name>Choo-Choo Patched</name>
<description>A patched Choo Choo Engine</description>
:wink:

aarona wrote: 4. Programming
--- I've made some head-way into the boring core of the game and would like to share with you all some general tips.
a. Get a good IDE/compiler
b. Comment your code :!: (This is a hopefully a community project)
c. Use doxygen to produce beautiful documentation on you code.
d. Compile to CHM to make it even nicer :wink:
A good IDE is relative, if you have gcc under it, it shouldn't be a problem,
ttdpatch get's compiled by various gcc versions on different platforms. Linux x86 / Linux PowerPC / Cygwin

As it's not a Windows only project please don't use chm.
aarona wrote: 5. Enthusiasm
--- I know this project has been going on for years and years and we've gotten people who come on board, make a bit of noise, promise the world and leave after a few weeks. I would hate to do this alone :(
Well a good point, from my experience it's not easy ...

-edit-
* That may change if TE works graphic wise...
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Post by Killer 11 » 08 Jun 2006 21:35

i think i'll get a model of a truck to ya i guess lowpoly right?

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Re: The "Should Have Been Discussed at the Meeting"

Post by aarona » 09 Jun 2006 08:10

eis_os wrote:XML can get quite complicate if you want to have things like variational cargo display, ages or other stuff selecting different sprites.
I agree, the point really is that it has to be done some way, so I believe (from a developers point of view) XML would be *much* easier to implement over making your own. (Unless someone more motivated to spend time on a paser is willing to put their hand up :!: ) It seems to me with regards to TTD-patch that people are either coders or graphics artists (exceptions, of course, do exist :wink:) so I'm hoping that with TE we can have graphics artists who can do their own coding without having to learn too much.
eis_os wrote:As it's not a Windows only project please don't use chm.
Fortunatley doxygen exports to HTML first, however I just prefer chm for is compressedness. I have no objections to do anything if anyone requests something sensible :wink:

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Post by aarona » 09 Jun 2006 08:27

Killer 11 wrote:i think i'll get a model of a truck to ya i guess lowpoly right?
Sounds great :!:

I wouldnt say no to a higher poly version too :wink: (although I suppose it depeneds on the definition of high and low)

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Post by XeryusTC » 09 Jun 2006 11:33

1. I don't like GPL at all, there are some redicelous rules in there.

2. XML works great if you want more programs to parse it, but most parsers are really slow. It would be better to just have your own format if only your application has to read it because it will probably be A LOT faster.

3. The design document is being developed as you are going, people come up with great ideas, some ideas are really bad or don't fit in the game.

4. a. You can get your own favorite IDE, some people (like me) use a IDE and a seperate compiler.
b. That should be clear for every coder, and also should be in the style rules ;).
c. Doxygen if very usefull indeed, but it can't do a thing if you don't document your code.
d. CHM is usefull, but I prefer plain HTML because you can load it into your browser without to much bulls*** (like plugins).

If there is being decided to accept my offer (look in one of the threads here) then most of the engine is ready made and useable on multiple OSs. And ofcourse it supports shaders so you can make low poly models look like high poly models.
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Post by Hellfire » 15 Jun 2006 18:18

aarona wrote:I've been working on the project for a couple of weeks now, and I've started coding.
Have you been extending the code in the CVS? If so, it might come in handy if you were added to the sf.net project, so you can also commit code back to the cvs. ;)
Feel free to contact me over Email! My current timezone: Europe/Amsterdam (GMT+1 or GMT+2)

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Post by Hyronymus » 15 Jun 2006 22:10

aroona and XeryusTC, please register yourself to the tt2 project on SourceForge or PM me your SourceForge username (if you have one already).

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Post by eis_os » 16 Jun 2006 07:32

I do think a scripting language could work best for describeing trains (with many possible options as in TTDPatch) This way it's very flexible and you can select sprites by human readable format.

Instead giving A LOT of different callbacks as we have in TTDPatch (However as it's a internal byte interpreter it's very very fast) you could always do an callback and cache the result.
If you need some more ideas on that point, simple ask me.
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Post by XeryusTC » 16 Jun 2006 11:59

We've decided that we will use the Lua scripting language, this is a very powerfull and fast scripting language. We could use the scripting language for A LOT of this, we could even allow it to have network access so you can have server scripts that do all kinds of funky stuff.
I've put a mockup for train properties definement here.

Topic locked on that note (09112006).
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