Transport Empire is Dead?

Archived discussions related to Transport Empire. Read-only access only.

Moderator: Transport Empire Moderators

User avatar
The Master
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 80
Joined: 02 Apr 2005 20:50
Location: Italy
Contact:

Transport Empire is Dead?

Post by The Master »

Transport Empire is dead?
Or only forum its.
-----------------------------------
I play OpenTTD in italian under Debian GNU/Linux
User avatar
GoneWacko
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 8680
Joined: 10 Jul 2002 15:08
Location: Enschede, The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by GoneWacko »

I think you can pretty safely say it never kicked off =/

There were too much discussions about petty things, IMO.
GoneWacko. Making [url=irc://irc.oftc.net/tycoon]#tycoon[/url] sexy and exciting since 1784.
User avatar
Arathorn
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6937
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:10

Post by Arathorn »

It isn't really dead, but we need a programmer with a lot of free time. IE, someone who is jobless.
User avatar
charlieg
Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator
Posts: 323
Joined: 08 Oct 2003 14:07
Contact:

Post by charlieg »

You need to take action rather than discussing every minor point in detail. However, every time I mentioned this in the last 2 years I got shot down, but nevermind.
Open source tycoon games
--
Free Gamer - open source and Free Software games
FreeGameDev forums - open source game development community
User avatar
Arathorn
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6937
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:10

Post by Arathorn »

Everything is laid down already, but the only people on this project that can code are very busy with work or studying at the moment.
User avatar
Purno
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 16659
Joined: 30 Mar 2004 12:30
Location: Almere, The Netherlands

Post by Purno »

I guess that won't change anytime soon, TBH.
Contributor to the The 2cc Set and Dutch Trainset. Inventor of the Metro concept. Retired Graphics Artist.
Image Image
Download TT | Latest TTDPatch | OpenTTD | OpenTTDCoop | BaNaNaS: OpenTTD content system | 2048² OTTD scenario of the Netherlands
GRF Codec | GRF Crawler | GRF Maker | Usefull graphics & tools sites | NML Documentation Wiki | NFO Documentation Wiki
All my graphics are licensed under GPL. "Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else."
User avatar
Arathorn
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6937
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:10

Post by Arathorn »

As I said, we need a jobless programmer.
User avatar
Steve
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2085
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 20:19
Location: London
Contact:

Post by Steve »

I blame myself. Everything was fine before I went to Uni and we lost half of our leadership. Right now I have exams and procrastination to take care of, but I do have a week sitting in my room at Uni with absolutely no work to do. Who knows, maybe I can sort something out here.

We still need that jobless programmer though.
User avatar
orudge
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 25129
Joined: 26 Jan 2001 20:18
Skype: orudge
Location: Banchory, UK
Contact:

Post by orudge »

Steve wrote:I blame myself. Everything was fine before I went to Uni and we lost half of our leadership. Right now I have exams and procrastination to take care of, but I do have a week sitting in my room at Uni with absolutely no work to do. Who knows, maybe I can sort something out here.
Why, that sound strangely like me. Procrastination, in particular. And exams. My first one is in just over an hour. Naturally, therefore, I am on the forums. Yes.

Anyway, I'm afraid I'm not a jobless programmer right now, as just mentioned, so I can't really help out. Good luck, though.
User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13233
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus »

I don't think it's fair to blame yourself either, Steve. TE isn't run by you only and as TE is a community process which is being run in spare time it's not that strange that it stalled again. And your study should always go above your hobby. What I feel sorry about is that despite our efforts to get a proper communication between people we still suffer from miscommunication.

Charlieg: the problem isn't with our meticulous description of everything but the problem is the mentioned ill communication and the fact that it's a spare time job. Without a meticulous description people would still have no time as it's life that dictates the time one has and not the details of a description.
User avatar
SkeedR
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2264
Joined: 11 Jul 2004 14:55
Location: West Midlands
Contact:

Post by SkeedR »

I take pl1 code is useless? If not i've got just the man! :P
Last known as: Weirdy
User avatar
Arathorn
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6937
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:10

Post by Arathorn »

pl1?
User avatar
SkeedR
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2264
Joined: 11 Jul 2004 14:55
Location: West Midlands
Contact:

Post by SkeedR »

Arathorn wrote:pl1?
This is PL/I
Last known as: Weirdy
User avatar
Arathorn
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6937
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:10

Post by Arathorn »

I'm afraid using that language would badly decrease the number of potential programmers. ;)
User avatar
charlieg
Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator
Posts: 323
Joined: 08 Oct 2003 14:07
Contact:

Post by charlieg »

Hyronymus wrote:Charlieg: the problem isn't with our meticulous description of everything but the problem is the mentioned ill communication and the fact that it's a spare time job. Without a meticulous description people would still have no time as it's life that dictates the time one has and not the details of a description.
That's just not true.

The problem has always been the idealistic approach to designing the game. It was utterly unrealistic to totally spec the game before starting it. You needed to do a step-by-step process so that there was progress whilst you developed the game spec. All successful open source games (or open source apps in general) start with a basic premise, a few fundamental concepts, and build from there.* There are no playable open source games that originated from an exhaustive design document. OpenTTD, Wesnoth, Freeciv, etc etc, all had meagre origins.

You said it yourself; this is/was a spare time project. How can you do a full spec and code and coordinate in spare time? You can't. You need to be pragmatic and keep things realistic, keeping the short term goals low enough to reach. The problem with the entire TE process was there was never any short term goals that gave the project a tangible feel. (A design document is not a tangible game entity.)

A great example of an approach that could have worked for TE is FreeOrion, where the spec is written for each successive release whilst the current one is being coded. i.e. they spec 0.2 whilst coding 0.1 etc. This means that they've hit 0.3 with a playable game whilst still living the 'dream' of their ultimate MOO-esque game.

* I do not enjoy being able to say "I told you so", but I told you guys this years ago and had posts deleted or rudely replied to. I was only concerned that this exact scenario would happen. Having being around open source stuff for years, I could see the writing on the wall once the decision to completely spec the game before implementing it was taken.
Open source tycoon games
--
Free Gamer - open source and Free Software games
FreeGameDev forums - open source game development community
User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13233
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus »

Let's say the detailedness is one of the things that kept this project from taking off then, but it's not, by far, the only factor. We lost a code(r), managing a project like this is hard (even with plenty of time) and I agree we discussed about things too long. That was always my view on it and I believe the approach Steve and I choose to set clear deadlines was (essentially) a good approach.

It could be I replied less friendly to your suggestions too, charlieg. That generally stems from my bad relationship with negative feedback that doesn't show me clear enough how to do things better*. Whether you were clear enough is always discussable, the problem could be completely on the understanding-side :). Being critical is one, being constructive is more.

*there's a Dutch saying: the best sailors stand ashore, in English it seems to be "bachelors wives and maiden's children are well trained".
User avatar
eis_os
TTDPatch Developer
TTDPatch Developer
Posts: 3603
Joined: 07 Mar 2003 13:10
Location: Germany
Contact:

Post by eis_os »

Please don't compare a copy project like OTTD * with Transport Empire, that isn't fair for the Transport Empire Team. Ludde actually had a working commercial game as base and used 100% the game logic with all it design goods and the flaws aswell!

* I don't want any discussion about OTTD, but compareing should be done right.

I don't wanna let TE die, if someone has a somehow compatible license with my ideas (that means maybe dual license) you can count me in for logic stuff.
TTDPatch dev in retirement ... Search a grf, try Grf Crawler 0.9 - now with even faster details view and new features...
Image
User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13233
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus »

What are your ideas and what is the license you prefer, Oskar?
User avatar
charlieg
Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator
Posts: 323
Joined: 08 Oct 2003 14:07
Contact:

Post by charlieg »

Comparison to OTTD is a bit unfair. Comparison to games like FreeOrion, Boson, Scourge, Glest, and other open source games that implement their own vision is not.

Hyronymous: I agree your deadlines idea was good and kept momentum up for longer than it otherwise would have, but the problem was still that the deadlines were all on (from a game player's view) abstract things like the design document. I don't agree that you lost a coder. There were lots of offers for coding but never any real coding tasks. How can you lose coders when you never had a real codebase at any point during the project.

Ok, I've said enough. Post-mortem bitching is not fun.
Open source tycoon games
--
Free Gamer - open source and Free Software games
FreeGameDev forums - open source game development community
User avatar
eis_os
TTDPatch Developer
TTDPatch Developer
Posts: 3603
Joined: 07 Mar 2003 13:10
Location: Germany
Contact:

Post by eis_os »

Hyronymus wrote:What are your ideas and what is the license you prefer, Oskar?
Well A LOT, you know what I do and did for TTDPatch. About the license, a commercial compatible one, means that parts can be licensed as maybe LGPL with the allow to statical link (see fltk.org). Generally a license where I am able to reuse gamelogic stuff. And I am allowed to used changed code pieces aswell without violation of licensese.
TTDPatch dev in retirement ... Search a grf, try Grf Crawler 0.9 - now with even faster details view and new features...
Image
Locked

Return to “Transport Empire Development Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests