Model Editor

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Hyronymus
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Post by Hyronymus »

Common Uzurpator, you should at least give me space to have my own opinion about something without starting to threaten retalliation.

In general I dislike when an agreement is suggested to be solved by stating how many people agree contra the amount of people that disagree. The amount of people that agree with a suggestion has no 100% accurate predictive value of that suggestion being the (only) right suggestion. It's the factual arguments and considerations that predict the rightness of a suggestion. So please stop the threats and give a constructive and thorough answer to my objections.
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Post by uzurpator »

Hyro:

Ok - could you _precisely_ say what the interface through bricks disallow/limit? OFC you could note that noone is stopping you, or any daring artist, from creating excuisite 20000 poly models in 3d studio...

Could you back your claims with either experience in 3d modelling or 3d programming?
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Post by Hyronymus »

Well, I do have experience in 3D modelling actually but not with a game as goal but as architectural/constructive designs as goal. But I reckon that's irrelevant.

Probably there is nothing wrong with an interface through bricks but the problem lies in the rendered results that I assume will be used in-game. Because you cannot draw every shape with (LEGO) bricks the rendering will not be as fluid as the original one is trying to redraw. That's fairly OK with a low zoom level (= zoomed out) but not OK with a high zoom level. Then you would want to see a realistic model of the original and not a brickbased rendering. So either you disappoint people and do offer them a brickbased rendering or you edit the brickbased rendering in another program. That's somewhat unreal is it?
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Post by PJayTycy »

[uzurpator: I'm replying here, based on what I understand is your idea with lego, if I'm wrong, sorry..]

Hyronymus, in TE we won't use lego models. The models used will probably be a format that's easy to feed into opengl/directx.

There are 2 ways to get to that format:
-> Through a 3D modelling program like blender.
-> Through a lego-like CAD program.

We don't need to care about where our file originated from. Debugging might even use files created by hand in a hex editor.

So far, I guess your concern is quality of the 3D models? Well, if there is a lego-based model and a blender model, we'll only include the best quality one. If there is only a lego-based model, we only benefit from it, because otherwise there wouldn't have been a model.

Ofcourse, the question is, how much time should the coders invest in this. To that question, I have no answer, but preferably not much.
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Post by uzurpator »

PJT: Precisely.

The cool part is that there are plethora of lego CAD programs wich we might modify for our needs (eg - most of the code is already there). Maybe just getting our bricks will suffice. Maybe something will have to be changed.

Then there is a case of bricks->mesh converter, but that is fairly straightforward.
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Post by Hyronymus »

Yes, my concern is quality and it will stay my concern. And is the result of a lego-like CAD prorgram really easy to feed into OpenGL/DirectX? To me it seems like an assumption you just made, is there any evidence to back it up? Remember: I'm not asking it to annoy you but to prevent the project from choosing something on wrong assumptions.

I haven't seen any reply from people who provided 3D models earlier and I'm actually quite curious what they think too (after all it's their development tool to be). Perhaps I can add a suggestion to make a rendering of a real locomotive made out of LEGO bricks with the use of a LEGO like CAD program.
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Post by Purno »

Hyronymus wrote: I haven't seen any reply from people who provided 3D models earlier and I'm actually quite curious what they think too (after all it's their development tool to be). Perhaps I can add a suggestion to make a rendering of a real locomotive made out of LEGO bricks with the use of a LEGO like CAD program.
There are already loads of LEGO models of trains available in the OTTD BrickLand topic. The renderer should be able to render those models, but you have to figure out the correct settings to get the render you like.

EDIT: Look at the image attached and see yourself. Note that we shouldn't use bricks with those studs on the bricks (they're called "noppen" in dutch, don't know the english word exactly).
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Post by Hyronymus »

And those studs worry me too. Take the roof section for instance: if you want to have a smooth surface there you should add studless tiles/beams on it, right? That changes the shape then and makes it not quite like the original already. But my real point is: if you render something like this can you render it studless?
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Post by Purno »

Hyronymus wrote:But my real point is: if you render something like this can you render it studless?
You have to make your own bricks, without studs. Just build models out 3D pixels :wink:

(and of course, half 3D pixels, in triangle shape, round shape, like the same in LEGO, but then without those studs)
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Post by uzurpator »

Hyroooooo!!!

http://www.effectware.com/download/imag ... voxel2.jpg

Basicly - each brick is a voxel - a bit of matter. However in our application raw voxels are a bit to rough (jut notice that teapot :P) - so we are going to allow more shapes (not only bricks but also cylinders, cones or other shapes) and allow to set a color for each face.

Placing voxels is just like placing lego bricks - hence the proposition. There are not going to be any studs (yes purno - that is the correct term :) ), the connection will be seamless and perfect since the objects are not even going to be models. They are just mathematical expressions like this:

Code: Select all

Cone at 34,35,32 rotated -1,0,1,0,0,0, face1 color 23,23,45, face2 color 53,23,43, face3 color 43,67,32, face4 color 32,44,53
Building out of such elements is just like building out of legos - hence my proposition :)
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Post by Arathorn »

How about every artist deciding what he uses? Just know that when I ever find time to make new models it'll be in Blender.
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Post by uzurpator »

Arathorn:

Model made of bricks will have to be converted to triangles. Read: model made of bricks once converted can be opened in blender/maya/3dsmax or whatever else. And likewise - the game will be able to process both blender and brick built models since both of them will end up as triangles anyways.
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Post by Arathorn »

Then what's the problem?
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Post by Hyronymus »

The problem is that using LEGO-like CAD somehow seems to be easier than starting in Blender right away.[/sarcasm born out of misunderstanding]
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Post by Arathorn »

That's no problem, use what you like. Just know that the better you want things to look, the more time you'll have to invest in it.

Topic locked, artists are free to choose they're rendering program as long as they support the format standards imposed by developers (13112006).
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