Perspective or no perspective?

Archived discussions related to Transport Empire. Read-only access only.

Moderator: Transport Empire Moderators

Locked

Perspective or not?

Perspective
5
71%
Isometry
1
14%
Both and let the user decide.
1
14%
 
Total votes: 7

User avatar
uzurpator
Transport Empire Moderator
Transport Empire Moderator
Posts: 2134
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:21
Location: Wroclaw, Poland / Katowice, Poland

Perspective or no perspective?

Post by uzurpator » 26 Oct 2005 10:52

Simple question - should we use perspectivic view, or isometric view?

Isometric is what TTD uses. Perspective is more of the lines of RT3.

If you want to see a difference take a look at terrain proto below.

BOot the proggy - P will switch between non-perspective (default) and perspective - space will create new terrain.
Attachments
tpsc.zip
Sources.
(17.83 KiB) Downloaded 484 times
tp.zip
(240.06 KiB) Downloaded 533 times
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.

User avatar
Steve
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2085
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 20:19
Location: London
Contact:

Post by Steve » 26 Oct 2005 11:05

Does this change anything to the coding of the game? Or is a matter of preference?

User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13190
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus » 26 Oct 2005 11:13

This has been discussed and decided before: http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8332

User avatar
uzurpator
Transport Empire Moderator
Transport Empire Moderator
Posts: 2134
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:21
Location: Wroclaw, Poland / Katowice, Poland

Post by uzurpator » 26 Oct 2005 11:18

Hyro - not quite - they are both axonometric ;)

Steve - try the proto, its just a matter of a few lines of code - alas for now. But perspective view will carry some extra overhead on the LOD system.

Altho some will say that perspective looks nicer ;)
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.

User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13190
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus » 26 Oct 2005 12:06

Not quite even, isometric projection is a member of the axonometric projection class. Isometric projection itself, if I remember correctly, has 3 subclasses itself btw. But since the poll ended up with axonometric projection as the prefered view we're tied to isometric. Perspective is as far as I'm aware just a general term.

User avatar
PJayTycy
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 429
Joined: 09 Mar 2004 20:30

Post by PJayTycy » 26 Oct 2005 15:55

I don't really get the difference.

To me it seems like it's just tilting the camera (in-game), but from the sources I see it's a different drawing algorithm used by opengl.

If we can tilt the camera with both drawing algorithms, I don't care.
On holiday from 16/07 till 31/07

Mek
TTDPatch Developer
TTDPatch Developer
Posts: 417
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 13:35
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Mek » 26 Oct 2005 16:04

PJayTycy wrote:I don't really get the difference.

To me it seems like it's just tilting the camera (in-game), but from the sources I see it's a different drawing algorithm used by opengl.

If we can tilt the camera with both drawing algorithms, I don't care.
with isometric objects are the same number of pixels, no matter how far away they are, with perspective, the get smaller as they get further away from the camera.

User avatar
Steve
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2085
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 20:19
Location: London
Contact:

Post by Steve » 26 Oct 2005 19:34

Given that the game is 3D and we'll be using actual models, I think an iso view will waste the graphical engine. It would also be A LOT cooler if you are watching a train in your view, with a city in the background. Presuming the camera is fully rotatable and pitchable?

User avatar
Purno
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 16663
Joined: 30 Mar 2004 12:30
Location: Almere, The Netherlands

Post by Purno » 27 Oct 2005 06:48

In my experience Iso view is easier to build/construct things in. I'd suggest Iso view (or something similar) for building mode, but the ability of other views for, for example, vehicle tracking cams and such...

Just my 2 cents.
Contributor to the The 2cc Set and Dutch Trainset. Inventor of the Metro concept. Retired Graphics Artist.
Image Image
Download TT | Latest TTDPatch | OpenTTD | OpenTTDCoop | BaNaNaS: OpenTTD content system | 2048² OTTD scenario of the Netherlands
GRF Codec | GRF Crawler | GRF Maker | Usefull graphics & tools sites | NML Documentation Wiki | NFO Documentation Wiki
All my graphics are licensed under GPL. "Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else."

User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13190
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus » 27 Oct 2005 09:32

That's my experience too and I think a majority of the 3D-artists have experience in isometric projections.

User avatar
Arathorn
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6939
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:10

Post by Arathorn » 27 Oct 2005 11:09

I don't think that's a problem. A 3D model doesn't change between isometric or perspective view. When I make something I use isometric because that's easier, but with one mouseclick I can vew the model in perspective view.

User avatar
uzurpator
Transport Empire Moderator
Transport Empire Moderator
Posts: 2134
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:21
Location: Wroclaw, Poland / Katowice, Poland

Post by uzurpator » 27 Oct 2005 21:43

Here play some more to understand the difference.

[ and ] will rotate
+ and - will zoom in/out
Attachments
tpsc.zip
(17.94 KiB) Downloaded 454 times
tp.zip
(240.23 KiB) Downloaded 505 times
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.

User avatar
Purno
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 16663
Joined: 30 Mar 2004 12:30
Location: Almere, The Netherlands

Post by Purno » 28 Oct 2005 10:26

uzurpator wrote:Here play some more to understand the difference.
I don't exactly know what difference you mean,

but I think that this will be pretty easy for players to build in. The rotating and zooming functions would be nice as they are now, IMO.
Contributor to the The 2cc Set and Dutch Trainset. Inventor of the Metro concept. Retired Graphics Artist.
Image Image
Download TT | Latest TTDPatch | OpenTTD | OpenTTDCoop | BaNaNaS: OpenTTD content system | 2048² OTTD scenario of the Netherlands
GRF Codec | GRF Crawler | GRF Maker | Usefull graphics & tools sites | NML Documentation Wiki | NFO Documentation Wiki
All my graphics are licensed under GPL. "Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else."

User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13190
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus » 08 Nov 2006 23:33

XeryusTC, can you fill us in on what TRoS will support?! Can we have tilting/shifting camera positions and also, what do you recommend for a game like TE?

User avatar
XeryusTC
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 15415
Joined: 02 May 2005 11:05
Skype: XeryusTC
Location: localhost

Post by XeryusTC » 09 Nov 2006 07:12

TRoS is suppose to support full camera movement, this means turning around, pitching up down, zooming in etc.
And for the camera movement for TE, I think a "fixed rotate amount" and a "full 360 rotatable camera" would work, so you have one setting where the camera turns 90 degrees at once, something like RCT has. Or you can set the camera to be freely turnable so you can look from all views onto your little empire, this is what RRT has (IIRC). The fixed amount would be easier for building IMO, but the fully rotatable would be very nice if you just want to look around etc.
Zooming OTOH should be free both of the times which works best IME.
Don't panic - My YouTube channel - Follow me on twitter (@XeryusTC) - Play Tribes: Ascend - Tired of Dropbox? Try SpiderOak (use this link and we both get 1GB extra space)
Image
OpenTTD: manual #openttdcoop: blog | wiki | public server | NewGRF pack | DevZone
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13190
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus » 09 Nov 2006 07:15

And then we should use axonometric or isometric perspective?

User avatar
XeryusTC
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 15415
Joined: 02 May 2005 11:05
Skype: XeryusTC
Location: localhost

Post by XeryusTC » 09 Nov 2006 13:51

The are the same:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axonometric wrote:The three types of axonometric projections are isometric projection, dimetric projection, and trimetric projection. Typically in axonometric drawing, one axis of space is shown as the vertical.
Don't panic - My YouTube channel - Follow me on twitter (@XeryusTC) - Play Tribes: Ascend - Tired of Dropbox? Try SpiderOak (use this link and we both get 1GB extra space)
Image
OpenTTD: manual #openttdcoop: blog | wiki | public server | NewGRF pack | DevZone
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13190
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus » 09 Nov 2006 14:31

Right. On IRC you said TRoS works with graphical perspective. I assume that's what best to choose then, right?

User avatar
XeryusTC
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 15415
Joined: 02 May 2005 11:05
Skype: XeryusTC
Location: localhost

Post by XeryusTC » 09 Nov 2006 14:35

Yes, it is probably what would look best (and most realistic). It is also quite hard (say impossible) to change it to pure isometric because OpenGL (the matrix part) actually causes it when you start putting in 3D.
We could add an option which automaticly makes the camera change position so it looks isometric :).
Don't panic - My YouTube channel - Follow me on twitter (@XeryusTC) - Play Tribes: Ascend - Tired of Dropbox? Try SpiderOak (use this link and we both get 1GB extra space)
Image
OpenTTD: manual #openttdcoop: blog | wiki | public server | NewGRF pack | DevZone
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13190
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus » 09 Nov 2006 15:14

No, graphical perspective it is.

Topic locked, vote result processed (09112006).

Locked

Return to “Transport Empire Development Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest