[RFD] Make shunting interesting

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Do we want shunting in Transport Empire?

Poll ended at 15 Nov 2006 23:23

Yes
6
46%
No
7
54%
 
Total votes: 13

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Hyronymus
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[RFD] Make shunting interesting

Post by Hyronymus » 25 Oct 2005 13:01

Just thinking about shunting and how on earth it can be made profitable or at least interesting. To make it interesting isn't that hard probably. You can make shunting a requirement for normal trains to function. But as a shunter will never deliver any cargo there will never be a profit.

So what if you create two types of engine classes: shunters and normal engines. Normal engines need to make a profit, just as usual. But shunters don't need to make a profit, they don't even require income. All they need is a route. To not entirely throw the costs of shunting away you can create a cost for shunting in the train's financial balance.

The risk in this idea is that for some people it'll be too unreal so I'm curious what you think of it.
Last edited by Hyronymus on 08 Nov 2006 23:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Arathorn » 25 Oct 2005 13:11

Why not make shunting a part of the station? When you build a station, you can choose a shunter loc, and the better the shunter, the shorter the waiting time for trains that have to turn at the station.

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Post by Steve » 25 Oct 2005 14:25

Shunting?

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Post by Hyronymus » 25 Oct 2005 16:07

Those cute little engines that move empty cars around on a station.

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Post by Steve » 25 Oct 2005 17:28

Perhaps I should read the DD before saying this, but I thought we decided to NOT be able to seperate wagons like that, as it'll be too complex/boring? Just like we wouldn't use turntables to turn trains around.

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Post by PJayTycy » 25 Oct 2005 17:42

I too think this shunting idea had been cancelled.

If I remember the DD right, trains could change wagons in an abstracted way in a depot (-talking from memory here, I could be wrong-)
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Post by Hyronymus » 08 Nov 2006 16:44

Shunting never was cancelled but the idea of having consists change while following a route has been cancelled. Shunting could therefore only occur at the end of routes. Is that interesting enough and also worth the "trouble"?

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Post by m3henry » 08 Nov 2006 18:04

mabey make it an option!
so if the shunting is un-checked, its just like TT, but if its checked, then if trains don shunt, they have to reverse, decreasing thier speed by a; set percentage/changes through time/user changable so that this could work! :D
dont ask me how they turn around tho.
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Post by Hyronymus » 08 Nov 2006 19:01

Again, read ALL that has been written. We really need decisions.

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Post by Dave » 08 Nov 2006 19:09

Shunting is for Train Simulator. As much as it would look interesting and probably add more realism (you know I'm a realism junkie...), you have to question whether it would be "useful" to have it in game.
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Post by m3henry » 08 Nov 2006 19:34

Dave Worley wrote:...you have to question whether it would be "useful" to have it in game.
I have to agree with dave, it is only eye candy really. so my final desicion? NO!
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Post by Hyronymus » 08 Nov 2006 23:24

I decided to add a poll, please vote even if you replied here already.

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Post by m4rek » 08 Nov 2006 23:51

i feel it would be nice eye candy.

i believe what i want has already been mentioned somewhere that its not happening, but... it would be nice to, instead of leaving them in a depo (which in my opinion should have limited space and have to be expanded if you run out), have wagons on sidings at a station, with shunters shunting em about for trains. turntables, same, good for eye candy, you actually have a loco PUSHING, just like in real life (erm, i think)
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Post by Dave » 09 Nov 2006 00:59

M4rek wrote:i feel it would be nice eye candy.

i believe what i want has already been mentioned somewhere that its not happening, but... it would be nice to, instead of leaving them in a depo (which in my opinion should have limited space and have to be expanded if you run out), have wagons on sidings at a station, with shunters shunting em about for trains. turntables, same, good for eye candy, you actually have a loco PUSHING, just like in real life (erm, i think)
That would be nice however - the ability to leave wagons on sidings. Makes for good marshalling yard scenes.

Voted as per above, though.
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Post by aarona » 09 Nov 2006 06:50

I voted "Yes" on Proposition 87...I mean the above poll.

Let me describe a scenario which I think would make shunting viable.

Loco 1 is assigned a route from Station A to Station B.
There are goods waiting at Station A to be delivered to Station C and Station D via station B.
Loco 1 transports all the goods from Station A to Station B.
Loco 1 uncouples and gets serviced.
Meanwhile Shunter 1 splits the consist and shunts wagons going to Station C onto one line, and shunts wagons going to Station D to another.
On another line there are some empty wagons that need to go back to A.
Loco 1, after being serviced, picks up the empty wagons and heads back to A.
Loco 2, picks up those that need to go to Station C.
Loco 3, picks up those that need to go to Station D.

This is a more network orientated method, which will tie in with the idea that we have cargo with destinations.

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Post by Hyronymus » 09 Nov 2006 07:13

That means players need to buy shunters on every station and those shunters will never make a profit. Then those shunters shomehow need to be told what to do. How can that be achieved?

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Post by aarona » 09 Nov 2006 08:03

Hyronymus wrote:That means players need to buy shunters on every station
Not every station, just those which the players think will help. In fact if you dont like shunting then just disregard it and continue with TT transport model. In my above idea, station A would not need the shunter. Only B, because its the link in the network.
Hyronymus wrote:and those shunters will never make a profit.

Welcome to real life...empty wagons don't make a profit too. Just part of running a rail network.
Hyronymus wrote:Then those shunters shomehow need to be told what to do. How can that be achieved?
Order list for "Train 45", Provide shunting services for Pliffenberg.
Train 45 then hangs around the station and shunts whenever a train uncouples and it has a path.

These shunters can also be used at the base of hills etc to provide the extra pushing power.

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Post by Hyronymus » 09 Nov 2006 09:08

OK, so shunting would be a special order in the order list. Then I assume you need to tell it what to shunt:
  • - which train needs shunting
    - which wagons in the train need shunting
    - where are decoupled wagons stored
Especially the latter is important because you need a free track at all times to allow shunting. If you don't have a free track the station will be blocked in no time.

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Post by Dave » 09 Nov 2006 10:33

Further to the profit thing - Maybe you could get away from the TTD model of *each* train making a profit... Is that worth a new thread, maybe? I'll let you create it if so Hyronymus.
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Post by Hyronymus » 09 Nov 2006 10:38

Hmm, maybe but can we perhaps first "determin" if shunting is programmable without becoming a PITA to either the coders or the players. There's no room for inadequate features.

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