Discussion - Coding, SDL & DirectX

Archived discussions related to Transport Empire. Read-only access only.

Moderator: Transport Empire Moderators

User avatar
Steve
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2085
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 20:19
Location: London
Contact:

Discussion - Coding, SDL & DirectX

Post by Steve »

It was mentioned in the meeting that it may be good to use DirectX instead of OpenGL. It was also mentioned that the SDL demos are worthless. Since this was meant to be discussed on the forums and not in the meeting, you lot can have another go at it.

Discuss!
User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13233
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus »

If the 1st release of TE will use a different environment then the demos there is no need to store the demos just to have a working environment. Also, judging by what's been said yesterday during the meeting, the landscape demo would require a whole new approach anyhow. That would render the landscape demo as we have it completely useless. But still I think tossing them away isn't smart. If we gather all demos and simply back them up we will be done with them too. In the (rare) occasion that we do need them they can always be recovered.

Now about the DirectX/SDL discussion: we have to keep in mind that we are trying to develop a multi-platform game. Uzurpator, I understood I misunderstood you during the meeting. Would you be so kind to explain here what the benefit of DirectX will be and if it hampers multi-platform development.
User avatar
uzurpator
Transport Empire Moderator
Transport Empire Moderator
Posts: 2178
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:21
Location: Katowice, Poland

Post by uzurpator »

DirectX is the industry standard - therefore is more likely to work on most computers

DirectX has better support for many external devices (mice, keyboards etc)

Direct3D is a tad faster then OpenGL

SDL is open source

Both are free.

I am inclined to use DX, altho the best approach would be to use two interfaces - one for SDL and one for DX and swap them on compile.
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.
User avatar
Arathorn
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6937
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:10

Post by Arathorn »

But does D3D work on OS's other than Windows?
User avatar
toholio
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager
Posts: 216
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 00:54
Location: S37°56.286' E145°07.628'
Contact:

Post by toholio »

uzurpator wrote:DirectX is the industry standard
... for Windows.
uzurpator wrote:therefore is more likely to work on most computers
... that are running Windows.
uzurpator wrote:Both are free.
... as in beer.

Only one is free as in speech.
Image
Get Skype and call me for free.
User avatar
uzurpator
Transport Empire Moderator
Transport Empire Moderator
Posts: 2178
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:21
Location: Katowice, Poland

Post by uzurpator »

toholio wrote:
uzurpator wrote:DirectX is the industry standard
... for Windows.
If you haven't noticed Linux/Apple gaming scene is going strong at 0,005% market share.
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.
User avatar
Steve
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2085
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 20:19
Location: London
Contact:

Post by Steve »

uzurpator wrote:If you haven't noticed Linux/Apple gaming scene is going strong at 0,005% market share.
He has a point.

But to me, OpenGL seems like a better option, we don't know how Vista will turn out.
User avatar
uzurpator
Transport Empire Moderator
Transport Empire Moderator
Posts: 2178
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:21
Location: Katowice, Poland

Post by uzurpator »

Steve.

Hence the proposition to seperate the keyboard/draw/sound interface from actual game.
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.
User avatar
toholio
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager
Posts: 216
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 00:54
Location: S37°56.286' E145°07.628'
Contact:

Post by toholio »

uzurpator wrote: If you haven't noticed Linux/Apple gaming scene is going strong at 0,005% market share.
And McDonald's sells more hamburgers than any other restaurant in the world. Clearly, people should only purchase food from McDonald's.
Image
Get Skype and call me for free.
User avatar
uzurpator
Transport Empire Moderator
Transport Empire Moderator
Posts: 2178
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:21
Location: Katowice, Poland

Post by uzurpator »

toholio wrote:
uzurpator wrote: If you haven't noticed Linux/Apple gaming scene is going strong at 0,005% market share.
And McDonald's sells more hamburgers than any other restaurant in the world. Clearly, people should only purchase food from McDonald's.
If you want to flame, do it somewhere else.

Anyhow - this analogy is rather poor because food varies wildly in quality - direct3d/opengl do not vary all that much (gl is easier to learn, d3d has some more sophisticated stuff easier - but overall they are equal) and in aour scope sdl/dx would run just fine. There is that problem with win Vista. Also DX has much better documentation.
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.
User avatar
toholio
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager
Posts: 216
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 00:54
Location: S37°56.286' E145°07.628'
Contact:

Post by toholio »

uzurpator wrote:If you want to flame, do it somewhere else.
Oh? Saying that the Mac and Linux gaming scene has only 0,0005% market share wasn't flaming too?

I'm honestly not really concerned with which option TE uses but it sucks when a project chooses to work around a proprietary, single platform tool when a mature, open, cross platform tool is available.
Image
Get Skype and call me for free.
User avatar
uzurpator
Transport Empire Moderator
Transport Empire Moderator
Posts: 2178
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:21
Location: Katowice, Poland

Post by uzurpator »

toholio wrote:
uzurpator wrote:If you want to flame, do it somewhere else.
Oh? Saying that the Mac and Linux gaming scene has only 0,0005% market share wasn't flaming too?
Nope - it was stating a fact.
I'm honestly not really concerned with which option TE uses but it sucks when a project chooses to work around a proprietary, single platform tool when a mature, open, cross platform tool is available.
Noone is working around a platform. The case is to use an universal interface (chosen on compile) to use either SDL or DX and now develop around what is easier to learn/use. The other one can always be included.
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.
Bjarni
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2088
Joined: 08 Mar 2004 13:10

Post by Bjarni »

If DirectX is used, then it will be a whole lot quicker for me.... since I will have nothing to port
I will not go into a flamewar about what OS people should use, but if the game is limited to windows at this time, somebody will regret it, even some people saying that DX is the way to go right now
User avatar
toholio
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager
Posts: 216
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 00:54
Location: S37°56.286' E145°07.628'
Contact:

Post by toholio »

uzurpator wrote: Nope - it was stating a fact.
So you'd be able to provide some figures to back that up then would you? Remember that "I don't know any Mac gamers" isn't a compelling argument, even if the market for Mac games is obviously smaller.

I'm off to bed now. You all keep arguing so that there is something amusing to read in the morning.
Image
Get Skype and call me for free.
User avatar
Hyronymus
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 13233
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 10:36
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Hyronymus »

Well, here is something else for you to read in the morning, toholio. Bald statements alone aren't what we are looking for, neither some cheap flamewar. The project won't benefit from it. Please come with fundamental claims why D3D is worse than SDL. I hope you will do the same Uzurpator, perhaps my explaining this more:
Uzurpator wrote:The case is to use an universal interface (chosen on compile) to use either SDL or DX and now develop around what is easier to learn/use. The other one can always be included.
(Even if you did only for me)
User avatar
PJayTycy
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 429
Joined: 09 Mar 2004 20:30

Post by PJayTycy »

Well, if Vista doesn't support opengl anymore like it should (and it surely does look like that now), neither opengl nor directx are cross-platform.

Develloping the logic and the internal representation of the game can be done without caring about the graphical interface. If we do things right, we should be able to create a game core, that can work with an OpenGL, a DirectX (or even a command line) interface.

To create such a seperation, we need a few (more than 1) people who know how directX and openGL work.


So, we basicly promis both versions will be available eventually. We start with develloping 1 interface, so we can focus on the game core itself. When the game starts looking interesting and we get more devellopers, we create a second interface that uses the other library.


So, the only question that remains is: do we start with opengl or directx ? And I don't have a real opinion on that.
On holiday from 16/07 till 31/07
User avatar
uzurpator
Transport Empire Moderator
Transport Empire Moderator
Posts: 2178
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 12:21
Location: Katowice, Poland

Post by uzurpator »

What he said.

Altho I'm leaning towards DX.
All art and vehicle stats I authored for TT and derivatives are as of now PUBLIC DOMAIN! Use as you see fit
Just say NO to the TT fan-art sprite licensing madness. Public domain your art as well.
User avatar
Arathorn
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6937
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:10

Post by Arathorn »

I thought we decided TE will work on most modern OS's? I think that includes Linux and OSX.
Are Vista's OpenGL capabilities known yet? I though all was just a rumour untill now.
User avatar
Steve
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2085
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 20:19
Location: London
Contact:

Post by Steve »

If we do keep it so we can support both setups, then OpenGL is the best to start with. As you only need the DirectX support for Windows Vista. Or am I wrong?
User avatar
The Master
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 80
Joined: 02 Apr 2005 20:50
Location: Italy
Contact:

Post by The Master »

uzurpator wrote:If you haven't noticed Linux/Apple gaming scene is going strong at 0,005% market share.
I don't have programming espirience to suggest DX or SDL for particular technical good point; but share market is not reason to restrict support to Windows, TE is open source game not commercial, and as Linux/Apple probably it will not have big market share, but it will have small group of big fan with different platform, probably Linux/Apple, for only reason the big parts of windows user, gaming only the most publicized and popular games, and an open source & business games are not one of this.

Therefore i suggest to use SDL.
However good job.
Locked

Return to “Transport Empire Development Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests