IRC meeting 2005-02-26 Saturday @ 1930 UTC

[Hellfire]

The minutes are done. They are encoded in UTF-8, with Unix line endings. All tabs have been removed by spaces, because my current editor uses a tab distance of 4 instead of 8.

I also have some comments on this:

I think some changes are in order.

1) Better structure of the IRC channel. I agree with Chris, there is no sense in the current owners of the channel. Chairs and other important people are often not opped and such.

I totally agree. Our current system with "->" and "~" works quite well, if and only if all meeting attendants conform to them. Also, I'm beginning to see a need for moderated meetings with automatic voices removed from all L accounts (if that is possible).

2) The minutes should be done by someone at the meeting. For the 2 weeks i did the minutes, you'll find they were on the forum by the morning after, including delays due to forum downtime. I accomplished this by writing them during the meeting. Set out a text document with the headings, leave it to take up the top 1/4 of the screen, the other 3/4 for the irc client. Make notes as you go, then go over it, tiding it up, making it make sense.
I'm sorry, but writing them 6 days after the meeting, when we have meetings every week, is just not good. You say it'll "make" you read the logs.. but there is no reason why you couldn't do that anyway.

I wanted to make the minutes on monday, but I didn't get to it. I knew I did not have enough time during the rest of the week. That's why I opted for the wednesday.

Also, I'd like to note that I hate reading logs. I don't care about reading every single -> and ~ and every time some outsider disturbs the meeting. I like reading minutes. Short, clear and precise. You make excellent minutes, Steve. And your way of making them is probably a lot better dan mine. But from time to time, I'd like to contribute something more than just some posts on the forum, to keep myself involved and interested with the project.

[ChrisCF]

I'm putting this here to keep the "new" meeting thread clean. As regards the IRC channel, since we're unlikely to get hold of Evan to sort out L flags before the meeting, I put the following proposals on the table.

1. Tonight, we hold the meeting in a different channel (suggestions have been made for #TransportEmpire, although #TT2 hasn't disappeared yet).
2. If we can get the flags sorted to reflect the structure of the project, then we can move back, otherwise the move may be permanent.

I should warn you that I'll be with my mother tonight, and last time I was there the connection proved to be a little unstable. My IRC client will be on a screen session on my own computer, though, so you won't notice me quitting all the time. At the meeting proper, I will appoint a vice-chair to act should I disappear at any time.

[Steve]

I agree that we should appoint Vice-chairs. Last week, i had an issue to take care of (i thought someone might of been breaking into my house ) so handed the chair over to Hyr while i was gone. If the Vice was pre-appointed, it would work better.
Although in your case Chris, how will they know when you have disconnected and need to step in?

[ChrisCF]

Although in your case Chris, how will they know when you have disconnected and need to step in?

Just look for the bits where instead of telling people to speak, you just get ominus silence.

[Lilman424]

About the IRC channel. I de-opped Chris on L because he repeatedly banned my bot (admittingly, i did assume it was you, as i don't see Hellfire or owen doing that) On the other hand, I will gladly op someone like Hyronymus or Steve who is both a big part of the project and who I trust. I'll also make them a master of the channel (that IS what it's called isn't it?).
About the fact that I am rarely at the meetings: the times that I'm available during weekend are the times when you nutty European folk are sleeping, or should be, at least. I'm against us moving to a different channel, as #TEmpire has a name for itself self (and, quite frankly, I'm selfish and would like to be in charge )

[ChrisCF]

About the IRC channel. I de-opped Chris on L because he repeatedly banned my bot

... and the problem is? Did Transport Empire suddenly move from being a project to develop a game to being a project for everyone to play with their IRC bots? I'm not sure what's more annoying, having a bot on the channel that does pointless things, or one which doesn't actually do anything other than take up space on the nick list.

On the other hand, I will gladly op someone like Hyronymus or Steve who is both a big part of the project and who I trust. I'll also make them a master of the channel (that IS what it's called isn't it?).

Neither of these are good enough. People at the head of the project (currently myself, Hellfire and Hyronymus) should all have chanops, and you would have to lose the owner flag, being someone not at the head of the project.

(and, quite frankly, I'm selfish and would like to be in charge

I think this line speaks volumes. By the looks of things, if this will be your attitude, the move is permanent. Sorry.

[Lilman424]

... and the problem is? Did Transport Empire suddenly move from being a project to develop a game to being a project for everyone to play with their IRC bots? I'm not sure what's more annoying, having a bot on the channel that does pointless things, or one which doesn't actually do anything other than take up space on the nick list.

It's disrespect. I mean, If I was opped by, say, Steve in one of his channels and banned (the now dead) tycoonbot, I'd expect to get in trouble for it.

Neither of these are good enough. People at the head of the project (currently myself, Hellfire and Hyronymus) should all have chanops, and you would have to lose the owner flag, being someone not at the head of the project.

jfs owns #tycoon, and he's not very involved in neither the patch nor the forums, is he? Anyway, why is master not enough? The only difference is that master can't make owners/masters. "owner" is pretty much only ceremonial. And wanting something purely ceremonial would be selfish, wouldn't it now?

I think this line speaks volumes. By the looks of things, if this will be your attitude, the move is permanent. Sorry.

Ah, but you "forgot" the smiley (which, in retrospect, should have been a wink or a . but nonetheless) Also, of course I am selfish, I am a capitalist American pig!

Also, there's the fact that I want to see this project succeed, and there's not really a whole lot else I can do for it. I'm not that good of a programmer, I can rarely attend the meetings, etc. So I run the IRC Channel. Also, there is the option of having two channels. One for meetings, and one (currently useless) for help/discussion of the game. I could always run that one, right?

[ChrisCF]

It's disrespect. I mean, If I was opped by, say, Steve in one of his channels and banned (the now dead) tycoonbot, I'd expect to get in trouble for it.

If I went into your channel and booted out your bot, it would be disrespectful, but #tempire is not and has never been your channel.

Anyway, why is master not enough? The only difference is that master can't make owners/masters.

Exactly. Remember that anything below master can't set any other flags, so why should *you* be the one who decides who does and doesn't get ops in the channel?

End of discussion.

Topic locked, minutes are processed (09112006).