[RFD] Liveries

[Arathorn]

When I was modeling a train and deciding what livery I should make the textures in, I figured out that nothing has been decided about liveries yet (at least I couldn't find it in the FRD).

So what shall we do with company liveries?
There are two approaches:
1. The TTD way, vehicles have colours in the company colours.
2. The TTDPatch sets (at least most of them) way, all vehicles have real life liveries from the companies they belong(ed) to in reality, and change over time.

You can argue wich one is more realistic, off course vehicles look like they do/did in reality, but then again, you are not that particular company, but rather CSTrans.
Giving vehicles a base livery on wich you can slap your own company colours (like your company has two colours, on mayor and one minor, and the base livery defines places for those colours on the models), and a standard place for the company logo, that would (IMO) be quite cool.
And less work when making textures.

Feel free to either slap me or hail me for this proposal.

[uzurpator]

Skins.

[Hyronymus]

Skins are the easiest I think too, doesn't TG use it too?

[uzurpator]

Well - yes and no.

Yes - they simply reskinned a model
No - we cannot change the skin

[Steve]

I like the way you both answered "Skins", when that word wasn't mentioned at all in the first post

I like the idea of company colours. Isn't that how it's done in real life? Of course, different skins to show different styles in the company colours would be nice. But per train is fine too.

[Zuu]

I vote for company colours. In game companies then.

It aid players to know which train they own, and wich are somone else train. Especially if you can share tracks with other companies.

Personaly I don't eaven care if the locos/wagons exist in reality.

[Steve]

Especially if you can share tracks with other companies.

That's a very good point. In TTD we had coloured fences.. if we share track then we'll have no such luxury and company colours will be very much needed.

[ChrisCF]

It's important that your stock identifies your company, so company liveries should be used in favour of everything in the same colours. Of course, in a systme where stock changes hands all the time, it's not guaranteed to be a help. Regularly, we get Sprinters locally in Central colours, with the Arriva logo patched over at the ends.

[Hellfire]

But company liveries should not be limited to just colours. Maybe we should also include support for custom logo's or even custom skins.

[jfs]

A logo might indeed be more realistic than just livery colours. AFAIK it's mostly passenger transport that has actual colouring for livery, while goods transport usually isn't as clearly marked.
A company logo would probably just be a grayscale image that will be mapped to some colours appropriate for the actual vehicle it's applied on.

Also, I suggest that once a vehicle has been built, it never changes livery colour nor logo, even if the company does. So if you build a train in 1950, change livery in 1951 and build another train in 1962 having the same consists, the two trains will have different colours.
If the company logo is changed, every vehicle having a "major service" or similar (actual service in a depot) would have its logo replaced there. Optionally there should also be some option to "upgrade" the livery of a vehicle to the current one. This would also require a depot, though.

[Arathorn]

My idea was also to have a custom logo, but remember that the game is often too zoomed out to see the logo very clearly, plus transport companies do have their own colours, even on goods loco's and sometimes even on goods carriages.

Off course everybody will be able to make his own skin, simply change the texture in an image editor and reload it, but most people don't want to do that much hassle.

I do agree on the livery not changing immedeatly part.

[PJayTycy]

Railroad Tycoon uses real life liveries (unchangeable) and puts the company logo above them (floating in the air). This logo zooms in/out at about 1/3 the rate of the game, with a maximum size.

Putting logo's actually on the train could become difficult to see if you are zoomed out. Company colors are very nice, certainly if you do 2 company colors you can do very nice things (see the NFS:underground skinning). I disagree very much with not instantly changing colours though. It only adds difficulties to code, and it doesn't help the players. So, why would we do that?

[jfs]

I disagree very much with not instantly changing colours though. It only adds difficulties to code, and it doesn't help the players. So, why would we do that?

It adds realism.
IMO it's fully comparable to vehicles not having company liviries at all, but rather the liveries of the vehicles they were designed from. (Like in the DB-set for TTDPatch.) Both things will result in the player's vehicles running around in a multitude of different colours, the only diffrence being that in the case of my idea, the player can select those colours himself.

[Hyronymus]

Now I'm really confused. Can someone give a summary of the suggestions made in this topic, in easy english?

[Zuu]

I agree with PJayTycy that colours should change imedietly. Both becuese it will be esier to program, and becuse it will be esier for the users.

I would say that there is better things to use the limited computer resources and programming time than non imrdietly changes of the company colours.

[Hellfire]

Now I'm really confused. Can someone give a summary of the suggestions made in this topic, in easy english?

Arathorn started the topic with a choice between two different approaches for liveries:

1. Company colours (i.e. the TT/Locomotion approach)
2. Real life liveries (i.e. the TTDPatch + DBset approach)

Later, skins were suggested, which means that the 3d models won't change, just the images that are projected on them.

ChrisCF mentions that the stock identifies your company.

Then there is a discussion around the following items:

• Can you change the colour of all the rolling stock? Or just the loco's? Why are most of the discussions around trains?
• Is the colour of a vehicle fixed after it is bought? Or can you change it after a while?
• Will the same vehicles have different liveries over time? (At buying time or when they are a few years old)

[Steve]

You should be able to change colours of different items. I thought the system in Loco was excellent, where different types of transport (buses, passenger carriages, diesels, etc) could be given a seperate primary and secondary colour.
Colours shouldn't be fixed, or you may as well use real life colours. When you change colours you'll no longer know which trains are which!

[Zuu]

Thinking of resources having one set of colours for each transport method is not that much more requring than having just one for the whole company.

But if every single vheicle will have a seperate theme stored, hmm.. thinking of how ziping works, that might not be more than an int, but anyway. It will use more memory. And at least I will be much more confused to know wich train is mine, and wich are my compitors. Especially if two companies can have the same colours.

[Hyronymus]

I hate to admit that I liked the variety for company colours in Loconotion too. So by know I think that should be easier to use. Thanx for summarizing, Hellfire .

[Steve]

Meeting Decisions:

- Needs vote between company colours and real life colours

Status: Vote needed.