[RFD] Constructing roads

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Post by ChrisCF » 06 Mar 2005 19:28

I thought it was 3-2 in favour of no? Not that it matters, we'll still have to poll anyway.

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Post by Zuu » 06 Mar 2005 19:53

ChrisCF wrote:I thought it was 3-2 in favour of no? Not that it matters, we'll still have to poll anyway.
I think it was you and me who voted NO, and the other three voted YES. But if you sumurized it as 3-2 for no I might have mistaken it for 3-2 for Yes, as I might have asumed that you began with yes. Anyway..
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Post by Arathorn » 06 Mar 2005 23:04

Shall we do a revote here?
I'ld vote in favour of other vehicles on the street, it's one of the things I've always found lacking in TTD.
It would be however, low on the to do list, making the models for buildings and company vehicles has to be done first off course.

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Post by Zuu » 07 Mar 2005 14:55

I think it would bee good if a poll where aded by Chris or Hellfire.

I myself think that we should not have city traffic, as it will use *lots* of CPU time eaven without collision detection. And what is the use with city cars that is not in the way for the players trucks and buses?

But iif you can prove that it will work smoth with collision detection betweeen city cars and company buses and trucks, then I might vote yes. But only then I might consider to do that.

So for now I am for a No.
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Post by ChrisCF » 07 Mar 2005 15:57

Since it only turned up as a sidenote to the roads discussion, best drop it in a new thread, in case we need to add another poll here later.
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Post by Dave » 11 Nov 2006 20:39

Hyronymus gave me right to dig-a-dig this baby up, so here's an idea I had in the 11/11/06 meeting.

Assume that you are a company that wants to service Town A > Town B. The trouble is, there is no connecting road between A and B.

In TTD, you'd simply connect the towns.

My proposal goes along the lines of this:

1. You plan the road how you want it to go.
2. You submit the plan to the town council(s).

THIS IS WHERE I HAVE A COUPLE OF IDEAS:

A3. Within a set time, probably a month or three (possibly editable by difficulty configuration) the town council respond with a plan of their own, and you can decide whether to accept their plan or "negotiate" if they don't agree with your plan.

A4. Once a compromise is reached, or something that satisfies both parties, the construction goes ahead.

THE OTHER IDEA:

B3. Rather than complicating matters as above, the town council gives you a simple yes or no answer.

EITHER WAY, YOU'D FUND THE BUILDING.

The amount required to put in could depend on the size of town, goodwill of town, length of road, etc.

***

This is closer to realism, in my opinion.
Other ideas, anyone?
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Post by Hyronymus » 11 Nov 2006 20:51

Currently the Design Documents mentions this (red is my personal commenting):
Local authorities construct roads for public use. These roads have a maximum attainable speed of 105 km/h for buses and 90 km/h for trucks.
Transport companies can also lay their own roads as long as their approval rating is fair. Roads constructed by transport companies have no speed limit and are only accessible by road vehicles of the company that laid the road.
Hyronymus: unable to find confirmation on this
Aaron: I don’t agree with this system of unlimited speed.

By default roads have two lanes per tile, one lane for each direction and require twice the right-of-way of rails. Single-lane roads are possible and require half the right-of-way of default roads. Single-lane roads are one-way roads by default.
Hyronymus: only true if rails do not have two tracks per tile; what about double-lane one-way roads


Intersections

Roads can intersect, even at a 90° angle. Up to 6 pieces of tarmac can be laid on a single tile. Roundabouts will be created if too many stripes of tarmac will be laid.
Hyronymus: unable to find confirmation on this
Aaron: Roundabouts? Lets start with motorway on-ramps/traffic lights/unregulated intersections/give way/stop sign and roundabouts. There are many possibilities



Motorways

Motorways are roads that have two lanes, each for a different direction.
Hyronymus: are four lanes meant: two in each direction
Motorways are built like roads but have some restrictions:
- motorways allow only two parts of the road on a single tile
Hyronymus: as in one travel direction occupies one tile
- 90° angles are impossible
- motorways require level crossings with any other track type

The maximum attainable speed on motorways is 120 km/h for busses and 100 km/h for trucks. Motorways constructeld by transport companies have no speed limit.
Hyronymus: unable to find confirmation on this
Hyronymus: no speed limits on roads/motorways constructed by companies make things difficult and company-constructed roads fall under a local or regional authorities’ jurisdiction; not allowing competitor’s vehicles on company-constructed roads results in TTD silliness: miles of road overkill, TTDPatch/OpenTTD and chapter 12 provide a better solution
I'm very much in favour of Dave Worley's suggestion, and then especially the 1-2-B3 option. A3 and A4 just take to long. Another thing we have to realise it that all land not owned bu local authorities belongs to the regional authority (according to the DD). In that light I don't see why we should differ between local and regional authority road laying.

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Post by Dave » 11 Nov 2006 20:56

Well, following some discussion on IRC and reading the DD, I've made a couple of edits to the system...

1. The waiting period is eliminated, thus the decision is instantaneous, sort of like demolishing a building on TTD. But you'd still get a better pop up than "blah blah town refuses to allow this".

2. You could request different types of road, maybe from single lane to full on Motorway road types.

That's all for now. Discuss.
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Post by Hyronymus » 11 Nov 2006 21:08

Dave Worley wrote:Well, following some discussion on IRC and reading the DD, I've made a couple of edits to the system...

1. The waiting period is eliminated, thus the decision is instantaneous, sort of like demolishing a building on TTD. But you'd still get a better pop up than "blah blah town refuses to allow this".

2. You could request different types of road, maybe from single lane to full on Motorway road types.

That's all for now. Discuss.
A perfect supplement if you ask me :).

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Post by XeryusTC » 12 Nov 2006 00:25

What about allowing the user to specify a wait time, with the default being 0 ofcourse. This can make the game a bit harder for those who want it.

For all the other things, I totally agree, suggest the building to the towns, let them decide on it and fund a part of the building. We only need to decide how much of the construction you fund and how much is funded by the towns.
And maybe people can put toll booths on their funded road when they've funded more than x% of the cost of the road and the building has costed more than y money. This way they can get a bit of money back from other companies/virtual traffic.
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Post by Dave » 12 Nov 2006 02:44

XeryusTC wrote:What about allowing the user to specify a wait time, with the default being 0 ofcourse. This can make the game a bit harder for those who want it.

For all the other things, I totally agree, suggest the building to the towns, let them decide on it and fund a part of the building. We only need to decide how much of the construction you fund and how much is funded by the towns.
And maybe people can put toll booths on their funded road when they've funded more than x% of the cost of the road and the building has costed more than y money. This way they can get a bit of money back from other companies/virtual traffic.
Oh yes. I like the tollbooth idea for sure!
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Post by m4rek » 12 Nov 2006 13:49

can we have traffic actually going round? that would be cool...
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Post by XeryusTC » 12 Nov 2006 17:22

It might look cool, but it would be very anoying when you want to select one of your RVs, you'll have to find it between all the other traffic on the road. Another thing is that it will eat loads of FPS because there are loads of models to render (can be solved by disabling though).
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Post by Dave » 12 Nov 2006 18:19

XeryusTC wrote:It might look cool, but it would be very anoying when you want to select one of your RVs, you'll have to find it between all the other traffic on the road. Another thing is that it will eat loads of FPS because there are loads of models to render (can be solved by disabling though).
So virtual traffic is the way forward. Of course the amount of traffic between two cities could be defined by size of the two cities.

I really like the tollbooth idea on top of my own!
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Post by Hyronymus » 12 Nov 2006 19:15

M4rek wrote:can we have traffic actually going round? that would be cool...
I keep hammering on the need to stay ON TOPIC, M4rek. The topic is road construction, please stick to it. You have no idea of the agony I already have in reading through topics that ended OT or clueless.

About toll booths: yes they make sense too. I suggest the minimal investment in roads to allow toll booths should be configurable too.

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Post by m4rek » 12 Nov 2006 21:42

ok, but could it be considered to be added as an option?
(no need to reply to this here, if it warrants discussion, please start a topic)

ok, back on topic...


could we have it so that once the highway is approved, construction commences visually with road works and all that and is gradually built. construction time varies between distances, types of road, and funding levels.
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Post by Hyronymus » 12 Nov 2006 21:53

M4rek wrote:could we have it so that once the highway is approved, construction commences visually with road works and all that and is gradually built. construction time varies between distances, types of road, and funding levels.
That is already the default way of constructing track/stations. It was mentioned at the meeting yesterday too.

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Post by m4rek » 12 Nov 2006 21:54

i must have missed that bit
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Post by Zuu » 13 Nov 2006 17:21

Hyronymus wrote:Currently the Design Documents mentions this (red is my personal commenting):
[...]
- motorways require level crossings with any other track type
[...]
[...]
This means that two crossing motorways may not need level crossings. Is this the intention?
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Post by Hyronymus » 13 Nov 2006 19:16

We can supply clover leaf crossings of course if that's what you mean.

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