[FRDF]Steepness of slopes

Post by **uzurpator** » 29 Jan 2005 17:20

<The content of this topic used to be in the "How many wagons in a train" discussion. Please keep both topics on-topic. ~Hellfire @ 2005-01-31 14:18 GMT>

Well - I don't think that the game will allow more then 5% gradient. On current railroads 3% is considered steep ^^

As for trucks - 10-20% happens from time to time

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 29 Jan 2005 17:28

How is the % measured? I remember my physics teacher explained it once, and it wasn't what i expected.

Post by **uzurpator** » 29 Jan 2005 19:04

A grade is 1% if it rises 1meter/yard/foot/furlongs in 100meters/yards/feet/furlongs

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 29 Jan 2005 19:36

30% is in the FRD, just to make sure we disagree on it (I thought it was way off too).

I won't block the 1 km/h solution BTW, I'm just still wondering.

PJayTycy · Post by **PJayTycy** » 30 Jan 2005 17:14

There are 2 ways for calculating the %, which can have different results:

If you have pythagoras' triangle (A^2 = B^2 + C^2), take C as the difference in height, do you use C/A or C/B ?

C/A will always be lower than 100% (because A can never be shorter than C)
C/B will be 100% at a 45° angle (B=C).

See => big difference

Hellfire · Post by **Hellfire** » 31 Jan 2005 12:23

PJayTycy wrote:If you have pythagoras' triangle (A^2 = B^2 + C^2), take C as the difference in height, do you use C/A or C/B ?

Incline in % is defined as the difference in height divided by the horizontal length, i.e. C/B, in your terminology.

Oh, and by the way, A will never be shorter than B, but can be shorter or longer than C, hence your remark about C/A being always lower than 100% is false.

Take a look at the picture included in this post. I hope I had the same triangle in mind as you

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 31 Jan 2005 13:07

What you just said made no sense. A is always bigger than c and b in your diagram.

What's confusing people is the fact that you've done A^2 = B^2 + C^2 whereas it's normally written: A^2 + B^2 = C^2
In which the % would be b/a or a/b depending which way round you put them. So the % would be anywhere between infinity and 0.

PJayTycy · Post by **PJayTycy** » 31 Jan 2005 13:38

Hellfire wrote:A can be shorter than C

show me such a triangle

I know, I know, I was wrong in my post and edited it. Of course I meant A can never be shorter than C.

Hellfire wrote:Take a look at the picture included in this post. I hope I had the same triangle in mind as you

Yeah, it's the same.

Steve wrote:What's confusing people is the fact that you've done A^2 = B^2 + C^2 whereas it's normally written: A^2 + B^2 = C^2

Oh, I didn't know that. I just know how to use that formula, I never care about the actual letters in it (except if they have a special meaning or so).

But, nobody answered the question => Which % do we refer to ?

Mek · Post by **Mek** » 31 Jan 2005 13:41

PJayTycy wrote:But, nobody answered the question => Which % do we refer to ?

Hellfire wrote:Incline in % is defined as the difference in height divided by the horizontal length, i.e. C/B, in your terminology.

Zuu · Post by **Zuu** » 31 Jan 2005 17:38

Steve wrote:What's confusing people is the fact that you've done A^2 = B^2 + C^2 whereas it's normally written: A^2 + B^2 = C^2
In which the % would be b/a or a/b depending which way round you put them. So the % would be anywhere between infinity and 0.

I agree, but I didn't said anything, becuse I was not sure if that was how they do in middle europe or if PJayTycy did wrong.

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 31 Jan 2005 20:00

And still noone answered the question. I believe up to 6% for normal trains is safe, as is up to 10% for cogwheel trains. RV's might take up to 20%. I really don't see what the fuzz is about how to calculate steepness. Steepness grades have ALWAYS been measured in the rise of the terrain in meters divided by the distance of that rise in meters.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 21 Feb 2005 19:44

Meeting Decisions:

* No train ever gets stuck on steep track
* Slopes in TE will be steeper than normal because of how they need to be displayed to the user.

Status: Closed? More to say?

Zuu · Post by **Zuu** » 22 Feb 2005 09:20

Steve wrote:* No train ever gets stuck on steep track

How? They will climb up the mountain at a minimum of 1 km/h.

Steve wrote:* Slopes in TE will be steeper than normal because of how they need to be displayed to the user.

Technically not, but the Z scale will differ from the X,Y scale of tracks. So tracks will look steeper then they are. (However I am not sure if that way is the best. But that is the decission.)

Steve · Post by **Steve** » 22 Feb 2005 09:43

Yes, that's what i meant. I think we need to do it really, as real life slopes are so small, that users couldn't tell what's going on properly and we couldn't have maps with A LOT of hills and stuff.

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 23 Feb 2005 02:02

zuu wrote:
Steve wrote:* No train ever gets stuck on steep track
How? They will climb up the mountain at a minimum of 1 km/h.

As I've said before, I would increase the speed of "1km/h" to something a little more manageable, but still restrictive. IMO, 10km/h seems fair - rarely in real running will anything get that slow (possible exception of ships, but there are other issues there). To go as low as 1km/h seems a little too crippling, especially when we're not at the "toy" scale of TTD.

I would say that we don't place any kind of limit on slopes. If the user wants to build concrete-slept railway track up an 80-degree cliff face, at least make an effort, and let them suffer the consequences. Any such limit should etiher be totally inclusive - i.e. nothing fails on it, though most things could easily clear steeper - or totally exclusive - i.e. nothing at all in the game can get up that slope without dropping to "1km/h".

All for visually exaggerating the slopes, since it's nice to know that you have a slope, though (later on) a visual cue needs to be provided for this.

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 23 Feb 2005 08:32

10 km/h is almost a bonus for the player and I agree (somewhat) that 1 km/h is too slow. How about a compromise of 5 km/h?

Zuu · Post by **Zuu** » 23 Feb 2005 09:11

Hyronymus wrote:10 km/h is almost a bonus for the player and I agree (somewhat) that 1 km/h is too slow. How about a compromise of 5 km/h?

Lets say that it should be low, anyway we will store that either as a constant or as a variable that can be configured (maybe by the climate pack), so we will be able to twek that later on.

So for now lets say that it should be low, 1-10km/h or so.

Post by **uzurpator** » 23 Feb 2005 14:19

Dependant on skill level.

1 km/h - hard
5 km/h - normal
10 km/h - easy

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 23 Feb 2005 14:54

LOL, why didn't I think of that. Nice suggestion uzurpator, I'm all for it

.

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 11 Nov 2006 21:02

Now we know at which speeds vehicles will travel if the slope is too steep. I also think we know how to calculate slopes but not yet how to express them. I prefer grades as that's the easiest math you can do.

Now what will be the default limits for vehicles?
- 6% for normal rail vehicles
- ?? for cog-wheel rail vehicles
- ?? for road vehicles
- 0.1% for ships (suggested by uzurpator somewhere)

Transport Tycoon Forums

[FRDF]Steepness of slopes

[FRDF]Steepness of slopes

Who is online