Complete conversion mod for Openttd

[Zhall]

I want to create a complete conversion mod of Openttd to turn it into one of my favorite old games, Industrial Giant.

I have access to all of the assets from that game through Corell draw (to open a wierd file format) and a Windows XP emulator.

I have done a few ports of trucks and trains using the NML system.

How would I got about doing this? Make newgrf files using NML?

Some of the major things I would need to change.

• Reducing all cargo capacities to 1(a boolean would work for better memory useage).
• Increasing cargo types to atleast 256
• Creating multiple goods factories that require raw materials which can be changed depending on what is being made
• Stores that have catchment area and demand based on population in the tiles around it
• Drawing a cargo icon above a trailer or wagon to show whats inside

I've been attempting to do a project like this for over a decade, using Game Maker, Warcraft 3, Unity, and Starcraft 2 to make mods, but nothing comes close to the amazing transit system that Openttd has to offer, as well as the fact that it is so easily moddable through nml.

Thanks!

[Alberth]

NML seems like the simplest way. You'll run into hard-coded restrictions though.

Also, you can't publish anything, as the graphics are copyrighted.

[TrueSatan]

Yeah to bad all rights are now at Nordic Games,
some of those graphics were pretty neat.

Good luck with the project and maybe you can drop some screenshots

[NekoMaster]

Using the exact graphics from another game is bad, as those are copy right by the company that published/developed it.

How ever, you are free to make your own graphics based on another games graphics. Though thats a bit of work if your not prepared to draw up your own sprites.

This is probably why not many people have tried making total conversions for graphics in OpenTTD, theres just way too many sprites to replace.

[Zhall]

NML seems like the simplest way. You'll run into hard-coded restrictions though.

Also, you can't publish anything, as the graphics are copyrighted.

I realize this, but wasn't openttd the same way before the total graphics replacement?

I wouldn't try distributing it (other than to a few testing partners) until the graphics were redone.

But for nostalgic purposes I'd like to have a version with the original graphics just for me.

[kamnet]

You can always design it so that it requires the original graphics files. But considering how old the game is, I doubt there are many people left who do have them. There's probably fewer people even pirating the game than there were for TTD. And really it's not the best of ideas to start off development for a game by encouraging piracy.

[Drury]

What went wrong with your previous attempts? Seems weird to me that rather than using Unity you'd instead try to mod OpenTTD. That's like taking the path of most resistance.

[Alberth]

I realize this, but wasn't openttd the same way before the total graphics replacement?

At the time, you were required to use an original CD for the graphics that OpenTTD loaded.
OpenTTD cannot load external graphics from CD for a NewGRF, afaik.

[Zhall]

What went wrong with your previous attempts? Seems weird to me that rather than using Unity you'd instead try to mod OpenTTD. That's like taking the path of most resistance.

Well.

Almost every engine I used proved difficult to implement a proper A* pathfinding system in.

As for unity, my friend in Germany is creating "Industry Giant 3", which he had to rename to "Industry transporters"

He has been a 1 man effort for the last 4 years, and even just the truck pathfinding is still screwed up, but he likes to think it works "just fine". Hopefully when he starts testing multiplayer he will see how it breaks the game.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/376150

I've helped him abit with translations and models but lone wolfing a game like this, or an RTS, is mostly suicide due to the amount of work that needs to be put in.

Working ontop of the openttd engine provides you with a really refined transit system, among other things, that will slash development time.

As for the copyright compliance, this would be a good place to create models for the content (which can be reused later in a standalone game) and simply render them for use in Openttd while you try to figure out how to navigate unity in a way that won't kill you.

Here's one of the trucks I was able to extract a few years ago, along with some other NML work I did.

[Amak]

Using the exact graphics from another game is bad, as those are copy right by the company that published/developed it.

What about user-made mods for games? I recently purchased SimCity 4 and some mods are released under GPL or similar but many aren't released under anything.

Would you need the authors permission for the ones with no licenses?

What if you reproduce a 1:1 copy of the graphic in paint but instead of 32 bit you did 24 or 8 bit?

[Drury]

Using the exact graphics from another game is bad, as those are copy right by the company that published/developed it.

What about user-made mods for games? I recently purchased SimCity 4 and some mods are released under GPL or similar but many aren't released under anything.

Would you need the authors permission for the ones with no licenses?

What if you reproduce a 1:1 copy of the graphic in paint but instead of 32 bit you did 24 or 8 bit?

Legally you own everything you create regardless whether it has a license attached or not.

Also the thing about sprites... According to law, your graphics mustn't even evoke other people's IPs, but as we know practice is different and people merrily use retro sprites in their projects (such as I Wanna Be The Guy). Even when someone does sue (like Nintendo loves to do when you make a Mario clone), it formally has to do more with the title (like was the case with No Mario's Sky or Mario's Creed) than the graphics, although generally what prompts them is a combination of both and both are punishable. In practice you can use a Mario sprite in your game so long as you don't call it "Mario" anywhere in the game, especially not the game's damn title and even if Nintendo does notice they wouldn't bother with you since judges aren't likely to see graphics alone as enough of an infringement to prompt any kind of action. Hence why Flappy Bird was allowed to use Mario pipes scat-free and even make a killing on them.

But yeah just from an artistic perspective copying other people's crap for more than just an afternoon project is just plain wrong, lazy and won't get you anywhere, but that's just me.

[Alberth]

What about user-made mods for games? I recently purchased SimCity 4 and some mods are released under GPL or similar but many aren't released under anything.

By default the creator has copyright on his work. That means you have to ask the creator whether he allows you to use his work. Each person wanting to use it has to ask that. If you want to be legally covered, you also want a signed piece of paper from the author that he has given permission, or he may later change his mind, sue you, and then you have to proof you did get permission first.

A license is a public statement about the conditions of use. Instead of asking the author in person and having him sign a paper, you can wave with a copy of the license at court. Of course, if you step outside the boundaries laid by the license, the license doesn't apply anymore, and you once again need explicit permission.

It's sort of an extension of a car parked at the street, despite it being at a public road, you are not allowed to use it, unless you have permission of the owner.

Would you need the authors permission for the ones with no licenses?

Yes, the default is "don't touch".

What if you reproduce a 1:1 copy of the graphic in paint but instead of 32 bit you did 24 or 8 bit?

If you can convince the court that the new pixels are your original work, that would be possible. I don't really think any judge would fall for that, though.

[Pyoro]

I don't really think any judge would fall for that, though.

Of course if we're talking about hypothetical situations then I'd suspect that no judge in the world is going to bother with a non-commercial copyright violation against a non-commercial mod. You'd have to argue that you incurred some damages, and how you'd argue that? Worse, we're on the Internet. They'd first have to figure out who everyone involved is, and then it'd most likely be an international law suit. For creating a derivative of a free sprite/model/etc. I have a hard time seeing that come together ^^

But that's neither here nor there. Just ask, it's the polite thing to do, and politeness nowadays is endangered species that can use all the support it can get.

[Eddi]

Some of the major things I would need to change.

Just giving my opinion on how hard each of these tasks might be

Reducing all cargo capacities to 1(a boolean would work for better memory useage).

simple (however, "memory usage" doesn't really work like you think it does)

Increasing cargo types to atleast 256

nearly impossible

Creating multiple goods factories that require raw materials which can be changed depending on what is being made

hard (if you want factories to change input/output)
medium (if factories are fixed upon creating)

Stores that have catchment area and demand based on population in the tiles around it

advanced

Drawing a cargo icon above a trailer or wagon to show whats inside

easy

[Zhall]

Ive seen discussions on why the cargo types issue is what it is... why is it "nearly impossible"?

[NekoMaster]

Ive seen discussions on why the cargo types issue is what it is... why is it "nearly impossible"?

Its kinda hard coded into the game, and would require a bit of coding work to expand on the industry and cargo type limits. Also some people already complain theres too many cargos in FIRS or ECS.

[Captain Rand]

....some people already complain theres too many cargos in FIRS or ECS.

Too many? There aren't enough. I wish the cargo limit could be doubled to 64. Also, hasn't the industries limit been increased to 64 ( or is it 128 now)?

[adf88]

Reducing all cargo capacities to 1

Can be done via NewGRF (create/modify a vehicle set).

Increasing cargo types to atleast 256

You would have to modify the source code, a lot. Not just the core game but also NFO/NML tools.

Creating multiple goods factories that require raw materials which can be changed depending on what is being made

Not sure what you mean exactly, but cargo accepted/produced by an industry may vary in time so it's a matter of creating/modifying an industry set. However, there is an issue with varying industry cargoes - the "Industry chains" and the minimap ("link cargo to smallmap") can't handle that currently (see FS#6367).

Stores that have catchment area and demand based on population in the tiles around it

Catchment area is hardcoded so you would have to modify the source code. The demand may vary (as I described in previous paragraph) and can be based on surrounding tiles, this can be done via NewGRF.

Drawing a cargo icon above a trailer or wagon to show whats inside

If the icon would fit into the bounding box of a vehicle then it's just a matter of providing different sprites for your vehicles. Vehicles can change their sprites based on cargo that is loaded. It can be done via NewGRF. However, if you would like to draw the icon some distance above a vehicle then you would have to modify the source code to avoid glitches.