NotRoadTypes

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Re: NotRoadTypes

Post by Andrew350 »

Firrel wrote: 04 Jan 2021 09:29 I guess the issue is with your RattRoads set, sorry :D
Hmm, not sure I agree there, but after a closer look it seems AdmiralAI indeed doesn't use roads, but does successfully (for me, at least) manage to build functioning electric tram networks. But we agree the real issue is just outdated AIs :)
Gadg8eer wrote: 05 Jan 2021 01:40 That, or using ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDEN on the ROAD label like Ufiby seems to have done screws with the AIs
This is not a factor if not all affected roadsets do this, which I'm quite certain they don't ;)
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Re: NotRoadTypes

Post by ufiby »

Hi! I am aware that NRT problems are compatible with AI. AI is usually built on the road the main label "ROAD". We hide them and the AI is in a "dead end". I did it a little differently. If you want to use it with AI. select "NEW ASPHALT ROAD" in the "TIME ERA USED" parameters. Try it, check it out )
In fact, the AI is outdated, not knowing what to use with different roads, except for the main label "ROAD". The AI needs to be upgraded to a level with NRT compatibility. What about with U&ReRMM2? I set the main grid "RAIL" to hidden. Some AI's work well with U&ReRMM2.
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Re: NotRoadTypes

Post by ufiby »

Good morning!
That, or using ROADTYPE_FLAG_HIDDEN on the ROAD label like Ufiby seems to have done screws with the AIs
I use it connected to the TOWN ZONE as a neutral road. So that the city can build a neutral road and depends on from the time epoch, so we do not pay attention to AI.
Another flag "ROADTYPE_FLAG_TOWN_BUILD" gives only conditionally. It is written in detail there
Enables the roadtype to be built by towns, picked by highest speed (defaults to ROAD if no speed limits?)
I don't agree with this one. Because it's inconvenient. Something I wanted to do, there is no result
First: hide the ROAD label, so that the quality is as a neutral road, so that the city can be built independently. But what about AI and what will happen to AI ?
Secondly. Set a different placemark on the flag ROADTYPE_FLAG_TOWN_BUILD in quality for the city to build a neutral road. The main label ROAD can be used for the player and the AI. But I wanted to limit the neutral road to low speed, in fact in the game you will no longer see the neutral road, only the city is worth the road with the highest speed, this is the ROAD
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Re: NotRoadTypes

Post by ufiby »

ufiby wrote: 06 Jan 2021 10:57 Another flag "ROADTYPE_FLAG_TOWN_BUILD" gives only conditionally. It is written in detail there
Enables the roadtype to be built by towns, picked by highest speed (defaults to ROAD if no speed limits?)
I don't agree with this one. Because it's inconvenient. Something I wanted to do, there is no result
First: hide the ROAD label, so that the quality is as a neutral road, so that the city can be built independently. But what about AI and what will happen to AI ?
Secondly. Set a different placemark on the flag ROADTYPE_FLAG_TOWN_BUILD in quality for the city to build a neutral road. The main label ROAD can be used for the player and the AI. But I wanted to limit the neutral road to low speed, in fact in the game you will no longer see the neutral road, only the city is worth the road with the highest speed, this is the ROAD
Forget it if I'm wrong.
I've been experimenting with sets RattRoad set by the flags "TOWN_BUILD". And I looked at the game and changed the time (turned on the cheat). Nothing happens and nothing changes the road in the city. Should it be or not, other than starting a new game ? I noticed that the road is partially changed if I financed the repair of city roads. There is a possibility that in the future the city will automatically repair the road to improve the road?

Are you planning to add a waypoint road? It would be very useful, but why not? The rail has a waypoint. The ship has a buoy.
Bypass anything, if you set the waypoints.
Plan_A.png
Plan_A.png (51.91 KiB) Viewed 770 times
In the conditions of passage through the bridge and direct there and back.
Plan_B.png
Plan_B.png (66.77 KiB) Viewed 770 times
Even in the conditions of the city, so as not to lose the scheduled arrival and departure. If the city grows and the road widens, the car starts to spit on the schedule and look for the shortest path.
Plan_C.png
Plan_C.png (129.93 KiB) Viewed 770 times
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Re: NotRoadTypes

Post by Erato »

ufiby wrote: 22 Jan 2021 14:25 Are you planning to add a waypoint road? It would be very useful, but why not? The rail has a waypoint. The ship has a buoy.
Bypass anything, if you set the waypoints.
Plan_A.png
In the conditions of passage through the bridge and direct there and back.
Plan_B.png
Even in the conditions of the city, so as not to lose the scheduled arrival and departure. If the city grows and the road widens, the car starts to spit on the schedule and look for the shortest path.
Plan_C.png
I think road waypoints fit better within the category of NewGRF road stops, seeing as rail waypoints are just fancy stations. PNDA has been working on a patch for NewGRF roadstops, but seems to have stopped working on it right before the finish line, because of a bug he couldn't fix. Here's hoping development for that patch continues soon.
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Re: NotRoadTypes

Post by Andrew350 »

Road stops are already waypoints - just use "Go Via" orders on your vehicles and it does exactly the same thing :)
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Re: NotRoadTypes

Post by McZapkie »

There is one issue with road stops used as way-points: city attitude for unused stations...
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Re: NotRoadTypes

Post by Kruemelchen »

One problem certainly is, that the pathfinder (YAPF) does not take road speed into account. In effect, it takes the shortest, not the fastest path.

I hope at some point, this will get implemented, like it is for trains:
RVs take shortest route with YAPF
RVs take shortest route with YAPF
yapf rv path.png (7.18 KiB) Viewed 612 times
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Re: NotRoadTypes

Post by ufiby »

Road stops are already waypoints - just use "Go Via" orders on your vehicles and it does exactly the same thing :)
Yes, the same using. But...
Make it look exactly like driving through a road stop like a waypoint. It's a little weird. A waypoint and a road stop are two different things.
Driving a through waypoint is easier than a through road stop. It is enough to put on one tile than stations on two tiles. Example, the owner of the city is hostile to you and does not allow you to put road stops. Not only and in different ways in all situations.
I will post a picture that I drew waypoints on the right and on the left in the game from a road stop. Looks like there's a difference
Waypoint or stations.png
Waypoint or stations.png (14.01 KiB) Viewed 577 times
I read a topic about NewGRF Road Stops (Feature 14). This is a separate topic. There are possibilities waypoints can replace sprites with " road signs, road direction signs and more"
waypoint.png
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Re: NotRoadTypes

Post by wallyweb »

You can control your RV's route by using the one-way road arrows to block connecting roads. The effect is similar to using one-way rail signals. I only use "go via" on existing road stops that I need for other RVs that need to stop there.
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Re: NotRoadTypes

Post by LaChupacabra »

ufiby wrote: 22 Jan 2021 14:25
Road waypoints would be very useful, but will not be a good solution to the problem of major roads. Here another solution is needed.
Why not?
Question: What will you do if you have several hundred vehicles, several dozen groups of shared orders... and you build a new main road? Will you change all these several dozen orders after each rebuild?
Another situation: What if someone in the online game will build a shorter gravel road next to your highway and you don't have a checkpoint there? Will you be changing orders for all vehicles again?

But even omitting the above, waypoints would still be useful.
Three examples:
1. When all roads are of the same or similar class, but in some places traffic jams were created, even due to other players, waypoints will allow you to determine a better route.
2. When vehicles going in different directions are loaded at one station - different bus/tram lines or cargo loading for different enterprises/cities.
3. In the case of stations with very heavy traffic - the pathfinder marks the place of stopping too far in advance, which often leads to the fact that several vehicles want to go to one place blocking the traffic, while other parking spaces have been vacated and remain empty. By designating a stop or just a waypoint right in front of the station (entrance gate), its efficiency increases significantly.
wallyweb wrote: 23 Jan 2021 16:43 You can control your RV's route by using the one-way road arrows to block connecting roads. The effect is similar to using one-way rail signals. I only use "go via" on existing road stops that I need for other RVs that need to stop there.
It is impossible to map the route with arrows on a two-way road. Marking the road through the city with arrows would be at least frowned upon in an online game (you could be considered a troll by such style of building ;) ), and also inconvenient because it is impossible to determine the direction of the city owned road.
Andrew350 wrote: 22 Jan 2021 21:37 Road stops are already waypoints - just use "Go Via" orders on your vehicles and it does exactly the same thing :)
Try to forget to set "go via" for the bus - Cargodist will destroy you. And if not a cargodist, local authorities will do it. ;)
Kruemelchen wrote: 23 Jan 2021 12:17 One problem certainly is, that the pathfinder (YAPF) does not take road speed into account. In effect, it takes the shortest, not the fastest path.
This is the underlying problem. I wrote about it a year ago (here, point 2), and a week ago I reported this issue on Github (#8594).
Road speed limits 1.2.1.png
Road speed limits 1.2.1.png (668.35 KiB) Viewed 461 times
This works very well for route determination for on-track vehicles. It is logical that it should be the same for roads.
Here it is noted that roads with the same or similar speed limits may have a different rank. Another thing is that the pathfinder for a vehicle with a maximum speed of 90 will not set a route through the highway, but will only go through local roads, which will usually not be as expected. Therefore, I believe that it would be good if each road could have an additional traffic penalty assigned individually by the creators of add-ons.
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