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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:01 pm 
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andythenorth wrote:
wallyweb wrote:
Ok ... So if I grab the Hog road tool and drag it along a beetle road, the beetle road will be forcibly converted to the Hog road persuasion without a word in protest.

No, you can't overbuild roadtypes on a tile that already has a roadtype. The convert tool is provided for that ;)


Talking about this convert thing. I know the new road/tram type has to be compatible with the old road/tram type, but i just don't like this functionality. Each time i want to convert an electrified road to a standard road, it tells me there isn't a suitable road. It doesn't do the same thing when i want to convert ELRL to RAIL...

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:33 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
andythenorth wrote:
wallyweb wrote:
Ok ... So if I grab the Hog road tool and drag it along a beetle road, the beetle road will be forcibly converted to the Hog road persuasion without a word in protest.

No, you can't overbuild roadtypes on a tile that already has a roadtype. The convert tool is provided for that ;)


Talking about this convert thing. I know the new road/tram type has to be compatible with the old road/tram type, but i just don't like this functionality. Each time i want to convert an electrified road to a standard road, it tells me there isn't a suitable road. It doesn't do the same thing when i want to convert ELRL to RAIL...


Use the removal/bulldozer tool.

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:41 pm 
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kamnet wrote:
acs121 wrote:
andythenorth wrote:
No, you can't overbuild roadtypes on a tile that already has a roadtype. The convert tool is provided for that ;)


Talking about this convert thing. I know the new road/tram type has to be compatible with the old road/tram type, but i just don't like this functionality. Each time i want to convert an electrified road to a standard road, it tells me there isn't a suitable road. It doesn't do the same thing when i want to convert ELRL to RAIL...


Use the removal/bulldozer tool.


I know, i'm doing it every time i have to do this ! But it would be much, much easier if it was convertible !

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:18 am 
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OpenTTD is multiplayer innit.

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:10 pm 
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andythenorth wrote:
OpenTTD is multiplayer innit.


No, i'm talking about converting my own roads.

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:34 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
No, i'm talking about converting my own roads.

Do you own all the roads in towns? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:39 pm 
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andythenorth wrote:
acs121 wrote:
No, i'm talking about converting my own roads.

Do you own all the roads in towns? ;)


Yes, i remove them then put them back, so that i own them and i can do all i want with them :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:13 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
andythenorth wrote:
acs121 wrote:
No, i'm talking about converting my own roads.

Do you own all the roads in towns? ;)


Yes, i remove them then put them back, so that i own them and i can do all i want with them :twisted:


A bit off-topic, but always leave the road tile in the center of town. Otherwise the town will die. For some reason it needs that one tile or the town has some sort of bug that causes it's slow demise.

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:42 pm 
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SimYouLater wrote:
acs121 wrote:
andythenorth wrote:
Do you own all the roads in towns? ;)


Yes, i remove them then put them back, so that i own them and i can do all i want with them :twisted:


A bit off-topic, but always leave the road tile in the center of town. Otherwise the town will die. For some reason it needs that one tile or the town has some sort of bug that causes it's slow demise.


I do leave that tile. But the road belongs to me. This does NOT cause the "slow demise".

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:05 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
Talking about this convert thing. I know the new road/tram type has to be compatible with the old road/tram type, but i just don't like this functionality. Each time i want to convert an electrified road to a standard road, it tells me there isn't a suitable road. It doesn't do the same thing when i want to convert ELRL to RAIL...
andythenorth wrote:
OpenTTD is multiplayer innit.

To further explain: since roads can be used by vehicles of any company, downgrading roads has more potential impact. Converting ELRL to RAIL can only affect your own vehicles.

The development team thought about and discussed this issue at length, and decided the griefing potential of a mass-road-downgrade tool was too great to allow it. For any actual-gameplay uses, removing and rebuilding is perfectly adequate, and you're unlikely to change anyone's mind by posting here (especially if your argument is "I do what I want :twisted:").

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:08 am 
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acs121 wrote:
Each time i want to convert an electrified road to a standard road, it tells me there isn't a suitable road.

PikkaBird wrote:
The development team thought about and discussed this issue at length, and decided the griefing potential of a mass-road-downgrade tool was too great to allow it.

Perhaps the red box message could be a bit more acceptable ... Something like "The local authorities refuse to allow this." Local authorities dislike a lot of things such house demolition, road blasting and tree harvesting. Perhaps this could be submitted to the bribery committee for their consideration. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:51 am 
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wallyweb wrote:
Perhaps the red box message could be a bit more acceptable ... Something like "The local authorities refuse to allow this."


I'm not sure if you're serious, but in (Open)TTD that message implies the impediment to the action is a low town rating, which isn't the case here.

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:22 am 
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PikkaBird wrote:
wallyweb wrote:
Perhaps the red box message could be a bit more acceptable ... Something like "The local authorities refuse to allow this."


I'm not sure if you're serious, but in (Open)TTD that message implies the impediment to the action is a low town rating, which isn't the case here.

Actually I am quite serious. I understand and agree with the devs' decision and your point is well taken. I am just fishing for an elegant solution to an event that produced the response that the dev team was trying to avoid.
What about "Please use the toggle build/remove tool"?

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:40 am 
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wallyweb wrote:
acs121 wrote:
Each time i want to convert an electrified road to a standard road, it tells me there isn't a suitable road.

PikkaBird wrote:
The development team thought about and discussed this issue at length, and decided the griefing potential of a mass-road-downgrade tool was too great to allow it.

Perhaps the red box message could be a bit more acceptable ... Something like "The local authorities refuse to allow this." Local authorities dislike a lot of things such house demolition, road blasting and tree harvesting. Perhaps this could be submitted to the bribery committee for their consideration. 8)


Something like this is already present in town-owned bridges. When you want a bridge to be a slower bridge (why would you do this ?!), it says "The municipality of ... refuses this operation".

Same with roads : when downgrading the roads to slower-speed roads, you should get this message.

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Gotta say I'm really looking forward to this being finished :) It'll be a game changer :) Thanks for working on it. I wish I had the time to help.


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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:03 pm 
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PikkaBird wrote:
acs121 wrote:
Talking about this convert thing. I know the new road/tram type has to be compatible with the old road/tram type, but i just don't like this functionality. Each time i want to convert an electrified road to a standard road, it tells me there isn't a suitable road. It doesn't do the same thing when i want to convert ELRL to RAIL...
andythenorth wrote:
OpenTTD is multiplayer innit.

To further explain: since roads can be used by vehicles of any company, downgrading roads has more potential impact. Converting ELRL to RAIL can only affect your own vehicles.

The development team thought about and discussed this issue at length, and decided the griefing potential of a mass-road-downgrade tool was too great to allow it. For any actual-gameplay uses, removing and rebuilding is perfectly adequate, and you're unlikely to change anyone's mind by posting here (especially if your argument is "I do what I want :twisted:").


Rather than trying to prevent all grief by other players, why wouldn't we rather have players that would respect themselves instead of doing this ? In OpenTTD, twisted players griefing others can be counted on the fingers of a hand. I did play a 1700-2050 (and further) game on RATT with friends (we're about 10 companies each game) and no one ever trolled the others on road type conversion, etc. We played a game with just converting our roads, and even if we took the same sections on some routes, we never removed our roads so that the other couldn't run his vehicles, never converted manually an electrified road to a standard road to block other's trolleybuses, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Let me try this another way. Why would you ever want to downgrade compatibility?

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:47 pm 
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It's realism, really. If you go up to the mayor and tell them "I'm going to rebuild your roads. Put in new tarmac, make everything fresh and new." He's more likely to comply than when you say: "I'm going to rip out the tarmac and put in some dirt roads." In the latter case, any sane mayor will kindly ask you to go reconsider your life choices.

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:28 am 
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I always thought it is a bug, you can't downgrade roads :oops:
Maybe it would be good to inform the player of this behaviour, i.e. through a more detailed warning message?

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 Post subject: Re: NotRoadTypes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:47 am 
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Kruemelchen wrote:
I always thought it is a bug, you can't downgrade roads :oops:
Maybe it would be good to inform the player of this behaviour, i.e. through a more detailed warning message?

As suggested here :?:

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