NotRoadTypes

[xarick]

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[acs121]

If i am not blind, the issue is that when you want information about terrain, it says there is a road and a tramway type ?

[supermop]

Also, we should be able to cross ROAD and HAUL,

It's really up to the road set author to decide what roads are compatible with each other. There are a few reasons why an author might chose to make ROAD and HAUL mutually exclusive:
1) They find it inappropriate for giant mining trucks to drive on regular roads out of a sense of realism - those huge yellow dump trucks rarely if ever go on a normal road in regular service, and often are shipped to site in pieces. They certainly do not drive through towns as normal operation.
2) The whole point of a separate road type for HAUL, from a gameplay perspective, is the exclusivity of the type: there is a trade to make in either using heavy vehicles that require their own roads, or use smaller trucks that can take advantage of the wider road network. The fact that ROAD and HAUL must be separate is the whole motivation for even including HAUL in a road set.

disallow laying tramways on HAUL except to cross the road.

Currently, roadtypes that forbid tramways are not yet supported, but when they are that would be a valid option for an author to take. Generally I would just refrain from placing my tramways like this, so my industrial trams would not get in the way of trucks, but I can see how it might be necessary in tight areas.

Sadly though, Unspooled gives no HAUL roadtype. However, i'll have to admit i'm in love with the Unspooled light-rail.

I'm glad you like my light rail. You can use another roadtype grf that defines HAUL with Unspooled if you want - just so long as you keep be low the maximum number of types. So far I have not felt a need to add HAUL compatibilty to Unspooled in my usage, though I may in the future. Currently only Road Hog provides HAUL vehicles, but it can also provide HAUL roads. I have not been using Road Hog lately, as typically when I get a moment to play, I need to use it to test my own RV set.

[wallyweb]

You can use another roadtype grf that defines HAUL with Unspooled if you want - just so long as you keep be low the maximum number of types.

+++++ Multiple road type GRFs per game! +++++
Mix and match to your heart's (limited) desire.
(/me waits with unrepentant impatience for the unabridged NewGRF NFO specs and offers Wolf01 quantities of energy beverages sufficient to disqualify 25 Olympic teams)

[acs121]

Also, we should be able to cross ROAD and HAUL,

It's really up to the road set author to decide what roads are compatible with each other. There are a few reasons why an author might chose to make ROAD and HAUL mutually exclusive:
1) They find it inappropriate for giant mining trucks to drive on regular roads out of a sense of realism - those huge yellow dump trucks rarely if ever go on a normal road in regular service, and often are shipped to site in pieces. They certainly do not drive through towns as normal operation.
2) The whole point of a separate road type for HAUL, from a gameplay perspective, is the exclusivity of the type: there is a trade to make in either using heavy vehicles that require their own roads, or use smaller trucks that can take advantage of the wider road network. The fact that ROAD and HAUL must be separate is the whole motivation for even including HAUL in a road set.

disallow laying tramways on HAUL except to cross the road.

Currently, roadtypes that forbid tramways are not yet supported, but when they are that would be a valid option for an author to take. Generally I would just refrain from placing my tramways like this, so my industrial trams would not get in the way of trucks, but I can see how it might be necessary in tight areas.

Sadly though, Unspooled gives no HAUL roadtype. However, i'll have to admit i'm in love with the Unspooled light-rail.

I'm glad you like my light rail. You can use another roadtype grf that defines HAUL with Unspooled if you want - just so long as you keep be low the maximum number of types. So far I have not felt a need to add HAUL compatibilty to Unspooled in my usage, though I may in the future. Currently only Road Hog provides HAUL vehicles, but it can also provide HAUL roads. I have not been using Road Hog lately, as typically when I get a moment to play, I need to use it to test my own RV set.

Shouldn't NRT provide for example HAUL - ROAD crossings just like trunk provides MGLV - ROAD crossings ?

[Gwyd]

Yes, but a more like-for-like example is that railtypes doesn't allow maglev and rail to cross.

[Wolf01]

You can use another roadtype grf that defines HAUL with Unspooled if you want - just so long as you keep be low the maximum number of types.

+++++ Multiple road type GRFs per game! +++++
Mix and match to your heart's (limited) desire.
(/me waits with unrepentant impatience for the unabridged NewGRF NFO specs and offers Wolf01 quantities of energy beverages sufficient to disqualify 25 Olympic teams)

That's already possible... since the beginning... maybe strange things or crashes might happen if the sum of both roadtypes exceed 15 (I tried with haul + unspooled + dockland one time)

[supermop]

Also, we should be able to cross ROAD and HAUL,

It's really up to the road set author to decide what roads are compatible with each other. There are a few reasons why an author might chose to make ROAD and HAUL mutually exclusive:
1) They find it inappropriate for giant mining trucks to drive on regular roads out of a sense of realism - those huge yellow dump trucks rarely if ever go on a normal road in regular service, and often are shipped to site in pieces. They certainly do not drive through towns as normal operation.
2) The whole point of a separate road type for HAUL, from a gameplay perspective, is the exclusivity of the type: there is a trade to make in either using heavy vehicles that require their own roads, or use smaller trucks that can take advantage of the wider road network. The fact that ROAD and HAUL must be separate is the whole motivation for even including HAUL in a road set.

disallow laying tramways on HAUL except to cross the road.

Currently, roadtypes that forbid tramways are not yet supported, but when they are that would be a valid option for an author to take. Generally I would just refrain from placing my tramways like this, so my industrial trams would not get in the way of trucks, but I can see how it might be necessary in tight areas.

Sadly though, Unspooled gives no HAUL roadtype. However, i'll have to admit i'm in love with the Unspooled light-rail.

I'm glad you like my light rail. You can use another roadtype grf that defines HAUL with Unspooled if you want - just so long as you keep be low the maximum number of types. So far I have not felt a need to add HAUL compatibilty to Unspooled in my usage, though I may in the future. Currently only Road Hog provides HAUL vehicles, but it can also provide HAUL roads. I have not been using Road Hog lately, as typically when I get a moment to play, I need to use it to test my own RV set.

Shouldn't NRT provide for example HAUL - ROAD crossings just like trunk provides MGLV - ROAD crossings ?

HAUL is a type of road, and again, it is not defined by NRT at all. So neither NRT nor Trunk would have any place to say whether or not HAUL and ROAD can mix. Unlike a trunk game providing Maglev, a vanilla NRT game with no NewGRFs would have no HAUL roads.

Like Gwyd mentioned, HAUL and ROAD are two types of the same feature, much like RAIL and MGLV are, so they don't 'cross' like a level crossing - they either can have a junction with each other, or can not. Whether they can or not depends on how the roadtypes are defined by NewGRF.

[acs121]

I mean, MGLV and HAUL is totally incompatible, so why ROAD - HAUL roads couldn't exist ?

[kamnet]

I mean, MGLV and HAUL is totally incompatible, so why ROAD - HAUL roads couldn't exist ?

They can - IF THE NEWGRF AUTHOR EXPLICITLY ENABLES THAT COMPATIBILITY.

I don't understand why this is difficult for you to comprehend.

[andythenorth]

I mean, MGLV and HAUL is totally incompatible, so why ROAD - HAUL roads couldn't exist ?

Why are you referring to Maglev? Maglev has nothing to do with NRT. I don't understand your question at all.

[Kruemelchen]

why ROAD - HAUL roads couldn't exist ?

I did just that in like 5 minutes in this GRF:

roadonhaul.grf

allows normal RVs to run on HAUL roads (and vice versa through a parameter)

(409 Bytes) Downloaded 79 times

It kind of lingered on my to-do list since around christmas...

[+] Spoiler

Here's the basic code for allowing RVs on HAUL road type...

Code: Select all

item(FEAT_ROADTYPES, haul, 5) {
	property {
		label: "ROAD";
		powered_roadtype_list: ["HAUL"];
	}
}

[wallyweb]

why ROAD - HAUL roads couldn't exist ?

I did just that in like 5 minutes in this GRF:

Good to know that one road type can be coded to accommodate vehicles from other road types. Now the question is ... Would that also apply to depots and stations and road stops?

WOW! I must visit the first post more often. I just noticed the link to Frosch's most excellent draft for the NewGRF spec. It was last modified on 20 May 2017, at 21:49 so I assume there have several changes since then, but it is a really good start. Thank you andythenorth for including that.

[acs121]

Huge thanks, Kruemelchen. It solves the issue with HEQS. I can now buy the HEQS unitised mining trucks in HAUL depots !

[Kruemelchen]

Good to know that one road type can be coded to accommodate vehicles from other road types. Now the question is ... Would that also apply to depots and stations and road stops?

This is automatically the case, yes

PS: if you write a new road type, you ALWAYS have to edit the ROAD-type in order to make RVs support your road as well. If you don't do that, then you need special RVs that can run on your road type. And that's the case with HAUL supporting only HAUL-supporting RVs.
The little GRF above just adds the support for regular RVs.

[wallyweb]

Good to know that one road type can be coded to accommodate vehicles from other road types. Now the question is ... Would that also apply to depots and stations and road stops?

This is automatically the case, yes

PS: if you write a new road type, you ALWAYS have to edit the ROAD-type in order to make RVs support your road as well. If you don't do that, then you need special RVs that can run on your road type. And that's the case with HAUL supporting only HAUL-supporting RVs.
The little GRF above just adds the support for regular RVs.

Thanks.
I'm more interested in speed limits for a road type. I'm assuming that considering that an unmodified RV is coded with a maximum speed property, it will behave similarly to how it would currently when crossing a bridge. This should make for some interesting game play in the pathfinder.

[supermop]

Good to know that one road type can be coded to accommodate vehicles from other road types. Now the question is ... Would that also apply to depots and stations and road stops?

This is automatically the case, yes

PS: if you write a new road type, you ALWAYS have to edit the ROAD-type in order to make RVs support your road as well. If you don't do that, then you need special RVs that can run on your road type. And that's the case with HAUL supporting only HAUL-supporting RVs.
The little GRF above just adds the support for regular RVs.

Thanks.
I'm more interested in speed limits for a road type. I'm assuming that considering that an unmodified RV is coded with a maximum speed property, it will behave similarly to how it would currently when crossing a bridge. This should make for some interesting game play in the pathfinder.

This is the thinking behind the road types in unspooled. Dirt, gravel, stone, asphalt streets, and highways, all with different maximum speeds, construction costs, and maintenance costs. Dirt roads are dirt cheap but slow, available from year 0, Highways have unlimited speed, available from 1950 ish, but building a private network of them will really drain your coffers. Stone roads may be a worthwhile upgrade over dirt in the late 18th century, but by the time asphalt is available they really seem outdated. None of my roads support HAUL, because currently barely any HAUL RVs even exist, so the gameplay mechanic wasn't worth implementing for me.

[andythenorth]

Huge thanks, Kruemelchen. It solves the issue with HEQS. I can now buy the HEQS unitised mining trucks in HAUL depots !

Why not just build it in road depots? I'm confused about the purpose of this. It makes me concerned that NRT is deeply flawed tbh.

[wallyweb]

It makes me concerned that NRT is deeply flawed tbh.

Not deeply flawed. Just in need of some fine tuning.

[andythenorth]

Just in need of some fine tuning.

I know that's meant well, but it doesn't confuse me any less. There's multiple pages of this thread dedicated to figuring out how players can basically eliminate NRT. It seems very odd. I don't know why we bothered tbh