Thanks for the great response to the message ! And you plan to add new road types for testing in the trunk? Many users really want to try in the game it's a miracle, what you made .andythenorth wrote:If it helps, the github page shows commits for the NRT branch https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoad ... tram-typesSTD wrote:How are things going with the project - NotRoadTypes?
That branch is then built once a day as https://www.openttd.org/en/download-ratt - changes can be tested in that build of OpenTTD.
NotRoadTypes
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Re: NotRoadTypes
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- andythenorth
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Re: NotRoadTypes
Testing is best done with the RATT build linked here https://www.openttd.org/en/download-ratt . It's about as 'official' as a fork can be, built on the OpenTTD compile farm, with trunk merged into it regularly, and it builds for a wide range of platforms. It really is just 'trunk + NotRoadTypes'STD wrote:And you plan to add new road types for testing in the trunk? Many users really want to try in the game it's a miracle, what you made
It won't get to trunk until it's more done and more tested. But then it probably will, barring accidents
I can't speak for devs, but I would prefer to see more of this approach with 'public fork in github' + 'official builds on OpenTTD compile farm'. (It's really a feature branch, except that github implements it as a fork).
The primary concern for trunk OpenTTD is pretty much stability. I think there's a reluctance to commit anything that risks instability or bug reports, because it's (1) bad (2) it causes support issues (and sometimes angry whining from players) which, bluntly, destroy motivation to work on the game
Meanwhile patchpacks tend not to be a good place to try out single-feature branches, because they combine a lot of stuff together, and tend to be unstable.
A dedicated build for a feature branch lets players (and newgrf authors) test the feature in isolation from other changes, whilst also being easy to keep in sync with trunk. Using a public location like github (or similar) just reduces hassle with setting up a repo.
Truebrain put work into the CF to make these builds possible, so it was good to be able to test it out with NRT
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Re: NotRoadTypes
I would probably use the RATT Build more if there where a little more in the way of road types. I do like how theres Trams and Electrified Trams now, so one can save a few bucks and stick with steam or fireless trams.
For now it would just be nice to have some basic road types with speed limits, like gravel (low speed), regular roads (medium speed), and highway roads (high speed). More intricate stuff can come later when things are more polished.
For now I'm just playing around with my new Arma 3 Altis and Strais height map as well as my Africa height map with the OpenTTD Spring Patch Pack.
For now it would just be nice to have some basic road types with speed limits, like gravel (low speed), regular roads (medium speed), and highway roads (high speed). More intricate stuff can come later when things are more polished.
For now I'm just playing around with my new Arma 3 Altis and Strais height map as well as my Africa height map with the OpenTTD Spring Patch Pack.
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Re: NotRoadTypes
Well the problem is that there are not many newgrfs available to use these features yet, and they will only become available as people author them. I hope this discussion will inspire some others to take up the challenge of creating a few more proof of concept grfs so we can start thoroughly testing the patch. NRT is honestly the first thing to inspire me to try to create a grf in seven years, so hopefully a few others are also encouraged. To be honest, coding docklands was not as difficult as I had feared - and don't understand anything at all about nml, etc. Personally I am not sure varied speed limit roads would be immediately useful or interesting to me in game, so I haven't tried mocking up that functionality yet. There isn't anything to stop someone who is curious about speedlimits from putting together a quick test grf.NekoMaster wrote:I would probably use the RATT Build more if there where a little more in the way of road types. I do like how theres Trams and Electrified Trams now, so one can save a few bucks and stick with steam or fireless trams.
For now it would just be nice to have some basic road types with speed limits, like gravel (low speed), regular roads (medium speed), and highway roads (high speed). More intricate stuff can come later when things are more polished.
For now I'm just playing around with my new Arma 3 Altis and Strais height map as well as my Africa height map with the OpenTTD Spring Patch Pack.
I'm very grateful for the work of those who are developing NRT - they've already given us the most commonly discussed potential road type features like support for speed limits, varying intro dates, varying graphics, and various power supplies, and they continue to work on adding new functionality as well!
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Re: NotRoadTypes
I would make a GRF myself but I recently got a new job and I have plans to go back to school. So I have little time or motivation to learn new NML stuff at the moment to create my own Road Type GRF.
The only reason I ever wanted road types to begin with is so that by default all roads the game generates are speed reduced so that slower busses and trucks get less of a penalty versus faster busses/coaches and express trucks, which would benefit from a higher speed limit like a highway. It just feels so weird to have busses zipping along through cities at over 120 km\h when most busses I've seen in North America or Europe barely reach the speed limit because of their frequent stops and lack of sports car like acceleration.
I guess I'll just have to wait until someone can make a simple road type GRF to really test out RATT with multiple road types with different graphics and speeds.
The only reason I ever wanted road types to begin with is so that by default all roads the game generates are speed reduced so that slower busses and trucks get less of a penalty versus faster busses/coaches and express trucks, which would benefit from a higher speed limit like a highway. It just feels so weird to have busses zipping along through cities at over 120 km\h when most busses I've seen in North America or Europe barely reach the speed limit because of their frequent stops and lack of sports car like acceleration.
I guess I'll just have to wait until someone can make a simple road type GRF to really test out RATT with multiple road types with different graphics and speeds.
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Re: NotRoadTypes
My Docklands roadtypes set is licensed GPL2, so people can use the source for that as a foundation for a set of their own if they want. You can find the source here: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=75960
There are also not yet any sets that allow players to test dual-mode or trolleybuses, nor various incompatible gauges or power supplies for trams. For now, NotRoadTypes is still very new, and many of the authors of various road or road vehicle sets have not even been active on the forums since the fork has debuted, let alone have had time to fork their sets for testing if they desire. I am sure as time goes on we will see more NewGRFs out there that explore the various possibilities.
EDIT: Now there is a grf for trolley buses! Shameless plug for my OGFX+ style trolley trucks and buses: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=75963
Let me be clear that I have not yet 'learned' NML, neither now nor in the past - I have a lot of trouble really understanding code of any kind, so I mostly copied and tweaked example code and asked questions, mostly over lunch breaks and late at night. My job here in the city typically occupies 50-54 hours a week, depending on project deadlines, so it took a very specific, very strong inspiration for an idea I wanted to see in game to get me working on this. Hopefully another author exists who feels similarly strong about speed limits, and creates or modifies a grf to limit the speed of ROAD etc. As far as I can tell, this is certainly possible with the current state of NotRoadTypes.NekoMaster wrote:I would make a GRF myself but I recently got a new job and I have plans to go back to school. So I have little time or motivation to learn new NML stuff at the moment to create my own Road Type GRF.
There are also not yet any sets that allow players to test dual-mode or trolleybuses, nor various incompatible gauges or power supplies for trams. For now, NotRoadTypes is still very new, and many of the authors of various road or road vehicle sets have not even been active on the forums since the fork has debuted, let alone have had time to fork their sets for testing if they desire. I am sure as time goes on we will see more NewGRFs out there that explore the various possibilities.
EDIT: Now there is a grf for trolley buses! Shameless plug for my OGFX+ style trolley trucks and buses: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=75963
Re: NotRoadTypes
Very interesting!!
A big thumbs up to all involved in this development!!
A big thumbs up to all involved in this development!!
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Re: NotRoadTypes
A question:
According to the documentation, in order to make a regular road tile in town, road/tram underlays are applied on top of the "grass/paved sidewalk". Shouldn't it be the other way round? If underlays graphics are broader than the sidewalk mask, the sidewalk will not be visible any longer, right? If the sidewalk mask is applied on top of the underlays, the problem disappear. Correct?
According to the documentation, in order to make a regular road tile in town, road/tram underlays are applied on top of the "grass/paved sidewalk". Shouldn't it be the other way round? If underlays graphics are broader than the sidewalk mask, the sidewalk will not be visible any longer, right? If the sidewalk mask is applied on top of the underlays, the problem disappear. Correct?
Re: NotRoadTypes
If that would be an option, then yes. However there are no separate sprites for walkways. To make RoadTypes work with any existing graphic sets we have to draw the walkway graphics (which include the default roads) at the bottom.arikover wrote:Shouldn't it be the other way round?
Btw. this is how tram sprites worked for the past 10 years.
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Re: NotRoadTypes
I was aware of that, but seeing the documentation, I thought there was a special new tile introduced with the patch, with only the sidewalk mask.frosch wrote:To make RoadTypes work with any existing graphic sets we have to draw the walkway graphics (which include the default roads) at the bottom. Btw. this is how tram sprites worked for the past 10 years.
That means the whole baseset road tile is used as base tile, and then everything is pasted onto it. Thanks for the explanation!
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Re: NotRoadTypes
I'm just wondering, why is this "Not" RoadTypes?
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Re: NotRoadTypes
At a guess, same as it is no ai and no go(als)?Captain Rand wrote:I'm just wondering, why is this "Not" RoadTypes?
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- andythenorth
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Re: NotRoadTypes
Prior to NRT, a 'RoadTypes' spec was discussed seriously at least twice that I am aware of. Both times there was a failure to agree on the spec, rather than problems implementing it. Additional to that Peter1138 'had a patch somewhere' for RoadTypes (probably lost).Captain Rand wrote:I'm just wondering, why is this "Not" RoadTypes?
So RoadTypes appeared to be impossible; the solution to that was NotRoadTypes.
Yes it's word games, but now we actually have a new feature eh? So eh.
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Re: NotRoadTypes
Honestly, after so many projects from you Andy, I expect anything you come up with or start to have a funny or interesting name.andythenorth wrote:Prior to NRT, a 'RoadTypes' spec was discussed seriously at least twice that I am aware of. Both times there was a failure to agree on the spec, rather than problems implementing it. Additional to that Peter1138 'had a patch somewhere' for RoadTypes (probably lost).Captain Rand wrote:I'm just wondering, why is this "Not" RoadTypes?
So RoadTypes appeared to be impossible; the solution to that was NotRoadTypes.
Yes it's word games, but now we actually have a new feature eh? So eh.
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Re: NotRoadTypes
I get it. Nice wordplay. Thanks Andy.andythenorth wrote:Prior to NRT, a 'RoadTypes' spec was discussed seriously at least twice that I am aware of. Both times there was a failure to agree on the spec, rather than problems implementing it. Additional to that Peter1138 'had a patch somewhere' for RoadTypes (probably lost).Captain Rand wrote:I'm just wondering, why is this "Not" RoadTypes?
So RoadTypes appeared to be impossible; the solution to that was NotRoadTypes.
Yes it's word games, but now we actually have a new feature eh? So eh.
I can see this becoming one of those things that (for me, at least) the game would be unplayable without (Infrastructure Sharing being another). I hope to see a patchpack based on the NRT fork, and yes, I know I'm probably in for a long wait but that's OK, it'll be worth it. Making it into trunk would be even better.
A huge thank you to everybody working on NRT. This is brilliant!
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Re: NotRoadTypes
I just thought of something for a GRF someone could try sometime. What about Bus Only Roads for a Bus Rapid Transit System, of course it'll only allow busses (dunno how that would be done though, perhaps only allowing vehicles that transport passengers/tourists)
I was also thinking that a Bus Only Road or BRT Road might give busses a speed increase incase there aren't speed limits on other road types, or if other road types are included with speed limits, BRT road would allow busses to run at their full speed
Lastly, unrelated to the above, I wonder if anyone will ever try to tackle an Elevated Rail "Tram Type", though I dunno how OpenTTD or NotRoadTypes would handle having sprites above roads higher then they normally would be for tram lines. Though if custom catanery graphics are supported for each tram type, perhaps someone could cheat and change the catanery graphics instead to make the Elevated rail look "elevated" above the road and ground.
(then theres the issue of vehicle grfs that would support being offset so they appear to run on the elevated rail rather then riding on the road)
I was also thinking that a Bus Only Road or BRT Road might give busses a speed increase incase there aren't speed limits on other road types, or if other road types are included with speed limits, BRT road would allow busses to run at their full speed
Lastly, unrelated to the above, I wonder if anyone will ever try to tackle an Elevated Rail "Tram Type", though I dunno how OpenTTD or NotRoadTypes would handle having sprites above roads higher then they normally would be for tram lines. Though if custom catanery graphics are supported for each tram type, perhaps someone could cheat and change the catanery graphics instead to make the Elevated rail look "elevated" above the road and ground.
(then theres the issue of vehicle grfs that would support being offset so they appear to run on the elevated rail rather then riding on the road)
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Re: NotRoadTypes
Segregated busway makes sense. I'd put reality aside, and use it provide buses with very high capacity per unit length, and fast loading, as that will have most benefit in cities. It will be a pain in the arse to build it in cities though alongside normal roads, similar to Iron Horse metro. Alternatively, express busway between urban areas with higher speed seems straightforward.NekoMaster wrote:I was also thinking that a Bus Only Road or BRT Road might give busses a speed increase incase there aren't speed limits on other road types, or if other road types are included with speed limits, BRT road would allow busses to run at their full speed
Zephyris made urban suspended monorail, implemented as tram. viewtopic.php?f=26&t=38413 It works, but it clips with tunnels, bridges and catenary, and that's non-solvable (it's a physical size issue, not a code issue).Lastly, unrelated to the above, I wonder if anyone will ever try to tackle an Elevated Rail "Tram Type"
FIRS Industry Replacement Set (released) | HEQS Heavy Equipment Set (trucks, industrial trams and more) (finished)
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Road Hog (road vehicles and trams) (released)
Unsinkable Sam (ships) (preview released) | CHIPS Has Improved Players' Stations (finished)
Iron Horse ((trains) (released) | Termite (tracks for Iron Horse) (released) | Busy Bee (game script) (released)
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Re: NotRoadTypes
Proud to report my first NRT crash, occurred when unpausing a game after building a lot of nice stuff to show in a screenshot for Unspooled:
- Attachments
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Re: NotRoadTypes
And you can create one-way paths for electrified tracks? That it was in real life. Everywhere can't be a two-way electrified track. When, for example, the tram takes place on the ring or going on the road with one-way or-two-way traffic.
Examples in the screenshots
Similarly, the question on roads: is it possible for OpenTTD to create a road with one lane? For example, the roads at interchanges
Examples in the screenshots
Similarly, the question on roads: is it possible for OpenTTD to create a road with one lane? For example, the roads at interchanges
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Re: NotRoadTypes
Whats that GRF there? I can see theres different types of roads there. Is there some where it can be downloaded from?supermop wrote:Proud to report my first NRT crash, occurred when unpausing a game after building a lot of nice stuff to show in a screenshot for Unspooled:
crash.dmp
crash.sav
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