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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:00 pm
Posts: 53
A little suggestion: Make it possible to see which signals a logic signal uses as input, e.g. as a zoning option.


Attachments:
zoning-logicsignal.png
zoning-logicsignal.png [ 67.2 KiB | Viewed 1129 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 274
Good idea, I'll look into that.


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:38 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Engineer
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:09 am
Posts: 106
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Holy cow that is one hell of a patch pack, only just found out about it!
>Download<

_________________
Pedro The Fisherman


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:40 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Soviet Russia
Testing actual 1.22 x64 version, comparing with JGR 0.23 x64 that I use as a main playing platform.

Interface:
1. Map view closes with right click in map area, preventing map moving. Very inconvenient if your map is not centered, as the only way to move it is using interface button. In JGR right click on map view will not close map, only on the interface part of window.
Also, right click on vehicle in depot closes the window, when it should show vehicle information.
2. Tooltip on any town building is annoying as it has no meaning and I sometimes use tooltip for quick scanning town for town industries like shops. In JGR tooltip only appears when it makes sense - on industries etc.
3. No build and refit button, very inconvenient.
Game:
4. It seems cargo payment is different in this version. Tested passenger delivery in 1920 in town with population of 2000, manhattan distance between stations is 9. In your patchpack cargo income for one trip is 24, in JGR income is 96, with the same settings, same vehicle (first bus from PolRoad, 16 passengers, 36 km/h). Completely ruins my newgrf vehicle balance. Why the difference happens, is it configurable in some way?

Good:
Public roads and vehicle history are very interesting and useful.

Other features:
Quote:
Station ratings now ignore time between vehicle arrival, so people playing with fewer longer trains are not punished more than people playing with more, shorter trains.

Is it configurable? Does it also apply if newgrf uses it's own station rating calculation? I don't want to completely throw out such important feature of original game.

Quote:
Make 'cargo payment rates' graph more useful by basing it on vehicle speed

Unfortunately, only English text shows that graph is based on vehicle speed and not time in transit, making players using other languages think that something is broken in the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 274
sevenfm wrote:
Testing actual 1.22 x64 version, comparing with JGR 0.23 x64 that I use as a main playing platform.

Interface:
1. Map view closes with right click in map area, preventing map moving. Very inconvenient if your map is not centered, as the only way to move it is using interface button. In JGR right click on map view will not close map, only on the interface part of window.
Also, right click on vehicle in depot closes the window, when it should show vehicle information.


That has nothing to do with my version that's a setting you can deactivate "close windows with right click".

Quote:
2. Tooltip on any town building is annoying as it has no meaning and I sometimes use tooltip for quick scanning town for town
industries like shops. In JGR tooltip only appears when it makes sense - on industries etc.


From what I know I copied that over from JGR.

Quote:
3. No build and refit button, very inconvenient.
Game:
4. It seems cargo payment is different in this version. Tested passenger delivery in 1920 in town with population of 2000, manhattan distance between stations is 9. In your patchpack cargo income for one trip is 24, in JGR income is 96, with the same settings, same vehicle (first bus from PolRoad, 16 passengers, 36 km/h). Completely ruins my newgrf vehicle balance. Why the difference happens, is it configurable in some way?


I never said my version plays identical to JGRs, nor is it supposed to. My payments are reduce based on the set daylength, since my daylength balancing works probably very different from JGR. If it's different in daylength 1 then I don't know what the cause it, but that's just the way it is. I can't now adjust all that just to match JGR and then completely break my own players' savegames.

My version is not JGRs version. We're totally different game versions. We share some features but that's about it.
Regarding build and refit... well yes I haven't gotten around to adding that, and I first have to look into it, how it works, whether it'll match my version etc. I find it a bit weird to tell me my version is just as inconvenient in some places as the vanilla version, while not saying a word of thanks for what it DOES do. You can tell me you'd like this feature, sure.
But quite honestly this post feels like a "I don't like your version, you suck" post.
To that I only have to say there's one easy solution to that "Don't use it". Nobody is stopping you from using JGR's version, this isn't a competition.

I said it very early on when I developed this: This version was developed for me and me alone initially. I never intended it to be public at all. I just did that because my Youtube subscribers asked me to do so. This is not meant to replace Vanilla OpenTTD or JGR's pack or anything (why would it, that's the whole point of open source code forks, everybody playing how they enjoy the game the most).

I'd suggest talking to JGR about the features in my version you like the most and ask him to add them. Public roads can easily be added to JGRs version. It doesn't conflict with anything. He just hasn't gotten around to looking through my code properly yet.

As for translations: I'm a coder. I don't speak 20 languages. JGR doesn't translate his features either, people help him with that. Difference is, on his side people offer help with that instead of complaining that he's crap for writing a feature in the standard English first. it's english because that's the base language of every text in the game. That's how it's done. If you want it translated, someone needs to do the translation first.

Station rating is not configurable but NewGRF defined station ratings are not overriden. That's vanilla behavior. As I said.. I kick a couple things out that I don't consider fun. This is primarily a game version for ME. If anybody else enjoys it, they're welcome to use it, but I won't try to accomodate everyone. That's what Vanilla is for.


And to make it one more time perfectly clear:

a) I'm not in a competition with JGR or Vanilla. JGR and I share code and cooperate on bug fixes and features to try help eachother improve OpenTTD in a way we consider fun for OUR versions. We don't try to best eachother or anything like that, most of our code isn't even written by us. We collect features others have written, fix bugs and put them all together and then sometimes add cool stuff ourselves. Neither version is meant to be the know or all end all of OpenTTD or compete with or replace Vanilla.

b) While I appreciate feedback if something doesn't work and when people tell me feature A, B or C might be cool to have, I do NOT appreciate entitled posts like this. There are three big versions of this game out now, four or five if you include Hard Pack and Spring Pack. All of those are maintained by people for free and available for free. I've had it before with another project I worked on: You are no customer, you have no right to anything. You can ask nicely for things, and you might get them. Post like this and it's VERY likely you'll end up ignored.


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:00 pm
Posts: 53
I found a bug:
Attachment:
joker-presignals-speedbug.png [118.26 KiB]
Not downloaded yet

Trains slow down to 25 km/h when passing a presignal that leads to red blocksignal.
By the way, I downloaded the 32-bit version from the link in your first post, but it's still version 1.21.0, not 1.22.0.


Attachments:
Edinway-on-sea Transport, 16th Apr 2107.sav [1.06 MiB]
Downloaded 14 times
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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:44 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Soviet Russia
KeldorKatarn I'm sorry if my post offended you in some way, it was never intended as anything other than just a small constructive feedback. Thank you for all the work you put into making your patchpack and that long elaborative answer to my post.
Now if I'm not yet on your personal lifetime permanent ban list, can we please get back to the topic?

KeldorKatarn wrote:
That has nothing to do with my version that's a setting you can deactivate "close windows with right click".

It doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that in your patchpack, right click always closes window even when it's in a zone where right click has meaning and defined for window. Tested with official 1.8, it doesn't close window when clicked on vehicle in depot or on map area in map view.

KeldorKatarn wrote:
From what I know I copied that over from JGR.

Unfortunately, it works different from JGR. That's why I'm asking if tooltip on every building can be disabled.
If official 1.8, there are no tooltips for industries or houses.
In JGR, tooltip shows only on industries which is preferrable.
In your patchpack, tooltip shows on industries and every house which is inconvenient.

KeldorKatarn wrote:
My payments are reduce based on the set daylength, since my daylength balancing works probably very different from JGR. If it's different in daylength 1 then I don't know what the cause it, but that's just the way it is.

Sorry I should have mentioned it first, I checked income with day length 1 in both cases, with identical game settings and newgrfs.
I also checked the same route in official 1.8, it gives 88 per trip. That means income is calculated differently (for times less in this case) in you patchpack than in official version or JGR. Unfortunately, I could not find any information on changed cargo income and how new formulas work on the first page of this thread.
Changelog only says
Quote:
* Adjust the cargo income curves. They are more stable now and make a lot more sense.

Also, what about newgrf defined cargo income? Is it affected by your new code?

KeldorKatarn wrote:
Regarding build and refit... well yes I haven't gotten around to adding that, and I first have to look into it, how it works, whether it'll match my version etc.

Please consider adding build and refit option in some way, I'm sure it will make many players happy.

KeldorKatarn wrote:
As for translations: I'm a coder. I don't speak 20 languages. JGR doesn't translate his features either, people help him with that.

What I was suggesting actually is that if you change some text in English, replace corresponding texts in other languages to the same English string, it will help people see that something was changed but not translated (yet), and it will help translators to find and translate new things.

KeldorKatarn wrote:
Station rating is not configurable but NewGRF defined station ratings are not overriden. That's vanilla behavior.

Great! That's all I needed to know.

KeldorKatarn wrote:
This version was developed for me and me alone initially. I never intended it to be public at all. I just did that because my Youtube subscribers asked me to do so.

Sorry I didn't know it was only for a closed group of dedicated players, I was under impression you offered your work for all OTTD folks to play and bring some feedback.

KeldorKatarn wrote:
There are three big versions of this game out now, four or five if you include Hard Pack and Spring Pack.

Hard pack abandoned long ago as far as I know.
Spring 2013 pack haven't updated for a long time, and there is critical bug in it preventing any town related game scripts from working correctly.
The only actual working big patchpacks are yours and JGR's, and yours seems to be most advanced at the moment, that's why people come here, compare things and ask questions. I personally see no problem when someone compares my work with others, as it helps me to find issues in my work and make it better. No need to see it as competition or as critique of your personality or your skills.


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:34 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 274
vrn wrote:
I found a bug:
joker-presignals-speedbug.png
Trains slow down to 25 km/h when passing a presignal that leads to red blocksignal.
By the way, I downloaded the 32-bit version from the link in your first post, but it's still version 1.21.0, not 1.22.0.


I forgot to upload the updated versions yesterday (I was tired), a subscriber already reported this. Try again, it should be online now.

Regarding the speed, that's not a bug. The trains slows down because there's a stopped train in front of it, not because of the presignal. That's the train speed adjustment in the works. A train will slow down when approaching a red signal or if it has a slower train in front of it. That's working as designed.


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 274
sevenfm wrote:
It doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that in your patchpack, right click always closes window even when it's in a zone where right click has meaning and defined for window. Tested with official 1.8, it doesn't close window when clicked on vehicle in depot or on map area in map view.


Sorry but I cannot confirm this. There is a setting for this and I have it deactivated because I don't like that either. it doesn't do that when it's off. I play with this version myself regularly, that doesn't happen. You need to turn that off in the interface settings.

KeldorKatarn wrote:
In your patchpack, tooltip shows on industries and every house which is inconvenient.


Then JGR didn't import that patch in its full form. There was a patch adding a lot more tooltips to the map. I like it since it always shows me the town and population when I'm playing with the town names off (which I often do). I MIGHT look into making interface settings for all types of tooltips, but it's not a priority. But I'll keep it in mind. There's one thing I might soon create a setting for anyway, so I'll add it if I have the time.

Quote:
Sorry I should have mentioned it first, I checked income with day length 1 in both cases, with identical game settings and newgrfs.
I also checked the same route in official 1.8, it gives 88 per trip. That means income is calculated differently (for times less in this case) in you patchpack than in official version or JGR. Unfortunately, I could not find any information on changed cargo income and how new formulas work on the first page of this thread.


As I said I adjusted cargo income. I can't tell you exactly what I changed since it was over a year ago I think, but it doesn't work as in vanilla, but it works for me. It's different on purpose. THere was a bug in the cargo calculation in vanilla that made very long distances lose money while paying too much for short distances. The cargo income is totally different now but it works fine. If you feel you get way too little money I'd suggest adding a base cost adjustment newgrf that lowers your costs to compensate. But this is not something I'll change or even offer a setting for since the original code was simply a bug.
I don't know if JGR fixed that or fixed it differently, but I found something that works fine for me. So if that bothers you very much then unfortunately my version might not be for you. As I said I'm aware my version works differently and it does so intentionally. I do not consider it unbalanced. I played tons of games with this version and it's still incredibly easy to make money.

Quote:
Please consider adding build and refit option in some way, I'm sure it will make many players happy.


I'll consider it next time I'm working on the code. For now I won't do that for a while again since I need to work on other stuff for my youtube channel again which I neglected to work on these last few versions.


Quote:
What I was suggesting actually is that if you change some text in English, replace corresponding texts in other languages to the same English string, it will help people see that something was changed but not translated (yet), and it will help translators to find and translate new things.


The game displays text in English if it can't find a translation for it. Every string I add that doesn't exist in vanilla yet obviously won't find a translation so it displays the English standard by default. The game WOULD pick a translation if one existed. That works the same for all text in the game. There's a ton of translators working on every version of Vanilla to offer translations for new stuff. I don't have those people so most of my features are English only. I don't consider this a major problem since I personally consider English to be a language you should be able to speak nowadays or you miss 90% of what's going on in the world. If someone wants to offer me a translated language file I'll be more than happy to include it.

Quote:
Sorry I didn't know it was only for a closed group of dedicated players, I was under impression you offered your work for all OTTD folks to play and bring some feedback.


It's not for a closed group. I just need people to understand that this was never meant for ANYBODY but myself. This was not planned or ever maintained as a public patch pack. This is for me and me alone primarily. People asked me to share it so I do, but that doesn't mean I accept demands or feature requests. I accept suggestions and I will implement them if I personally consider them worth it and if they will improve MY fun with the game.
This is a personal version of the game that I share because people asked. That means what OTHER people want in the game is very very very low on my list. I don't have a lot of work at all to work on this, so I usually only work on it when I feel I want something in the game.
That's the basis everybody needs to understand when using my version. I have no issues with someone using it and suggesting stuff but if I don't want something in it then it won't go in it. if I personally don't consider something worth the time and effort (like so far build a refit.. I simply don't need it that much), then it probably won't happen for a while or ever.


That's why I honestly think if people want a patch pack that offers support and maintenance and build for all platforms and all that kinds of stuff, JGR might be the better option. JGR has WAY more time to work on this, probably has some infrastructure in place to test-compile on all platforms and all that kind of Jazz. I don't have that nor will I. I don't have a mac or linux so I don't care if it compiles there. I don't carea if some outdated compiler doesn't support some C++ feature I use either. If it compiles in my Visual Studio then I'm fine. That's the difference. The version I upload is compiled on my home computer. I don't use a compile farm or produce nightly builds or anything like what I'd have in place for any professional project.

And this missunderstanding is exactly why I originally hesitated to make this public AT ALL. Some people will not like what I add to the game because they play differently and will ask me to change it, remove it or make it optional. Not gonna happen, unless I really feel like it. I work on this for me and me alone and it's shared because others wanted me to. But that does NOT mean I'll add stuff to this version because someone ELSE wants it unless it's a friend or someone I want to do a favor for.

Suggestions are always welcome because they might introduce me to features I consider fun and hadn't heard about yet. But keep in mind that if I don't consider it fun, it probably won't be in the game. At least not in this version.
If you can't compiler it on mac.. that's your problem, that's why it's open source. Same for linux. I don't use it, so I don't care. I do NOT approach this like a professional project since I simply don't have the spare time to put that much work into setting all that up and maintaining multiple compiler chains and all that. I don't consider fixing bugs on a platform I don't use fun and I only do that kind of work for stuff I'm paid for. If someone else fixes it and gives me a pull request I'll of course include it, but I won't work on that myself.

This is not meant to sound pissy, I just feel I need to make this perfectly clear since a lot of people don't understand what this is. I do NOT work on matching anybody's code style, I write code the way I can read it best. I do NOT care about other compilers or platforms because I don't use them, I do NOT care about Vanilla compatibility beyond savegame loading which I only do because it's easy to do. I do NOT care about features being super polished or perfect as long as they work and are bug free and fun for me personally. I do NOT care much about translations since I play in English (even though I'm German, there's no German translation either since I simply would never see it, so why double my work in that area).

This is what people need to understand when using my version and I tried making that clear right from the start.


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:00 pm
Posts: 53
KeldorKatarn wrote:
Regarding the speed, that's not a bug. The trains slows down because there's a stopped train in front of it, not because of the presignal. That's the train speed adjustment in the works. A train will slow down when approaching a red signal or if it has a slower train in front of it. That's working as designed.

Ah ok, I should have checked the settings first. My bad!


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:49 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 274
vrn wrote:
KeldorKatarn wrote:
Regarding the speed, that's not a bug. The trains slows down because there's a stopped train in front of it, not because of the presignal. That's the train speed adjustment in the works. A train will slow down when approaching a red signal or if it has a slower train in front of it. That's working as designed.

Ah ok, I should have checked the settings first. My bad!


Yeah you can deactivate that in the settings I think


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:41 am 
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Transport Coordinator
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 274
### v1.23.0 (2018-04-22)
* Add a button to force a resort every 74 ticks (every standard non-scaled day). This is especially useful for very frequently changing properties like timetable delay. reliability or profit-this-year.
* The sorting order toggle button in vehicle and group lists now forces a complete resort.
* The user interface no longer displays vehicles as early when the vehicle is waiting due to timetable separation. They are shown as on-time instead and are also sorted as such.
* Level crossings on the WIRE or PIPELINE track types no longer force vehicles to wait (and obviously don't cause crashes either).
* Bugfix: Time table automation now correctly records loading times.


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:05 am 
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Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 274
### v1.24.0 (2018-04-24)
* Make it possible to filter the industry directory by accepted and produced cargo.
* Adjust timetable window layout
* Adjust trip history window layout
* Add size definition button to the departure board window and color the entire window brown.
* Change the way timetable automation handles conditional orders
* Show useful warnings in timetable window, e.g. when using auto-separation on conditional or full load orders.
* Add configurable buffer times to timetable automation and make ticks_per_minute a GUI setting.
* Add settings to round up travel and loading times during timetable automation.
* Display durations in hours and minutes everywhere additional to ticks.
* Go back to original values for industry site search to prevent the game from freezing too long.
* Bugfix: Conditional orders checking slot occupancy now react correctly when the referenced slot is deleted.


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:46 am 
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Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 274
### v1.24.1 (2018-04-24)
* Hotfix: Conditional order comparator dropdown list was broken.


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:44 pm 
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Engineer
Engineer

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:45 pm
Posts: 2
Hello,

First thank you for this amazing pack !

I was testing the screenshots features and the "Flat owner map screenshot crashed the game.
The error message is "Assertion failed at line 175 of tile_map.h: !IsTileType(tile,MP_INDUSTRY)"


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:14 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 274
Mushu wrote:
Hello,

First thank you for this amazing pack !

I was testing the screenshots features and the "Flat owner map screenshot crashed the game.
The error message is "Assertion failed at line 175 of tile_map.h: !IsTileType(tile,MP_INDUSTRY)"


Can you provide me with a crashlog and save?
Edit: nevermind, found it. Fix coming up.


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:07 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 274
### v1.24.2 (2018-04-26)
* Hotfix: Fix flat owner map screenshot crash
* Hotfix: Certain order lists containing depot orders could cause a crash.


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 Post subject: Re: Joker's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Engineer
Engineer

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:55 pm
Posts: 4
Crash log / save game


Attachments:
crash.rar [3.96 KiB]
Downloaded 12 times
Rebel Inc, 12th Aug 2285xx002.rar [728.44 KiB]
Downloaded 15 times
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