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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:48 am 
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kamnet wrote:
And if that's the case, I like the bottom airport you laid out in your previous post.


Now that I got 1.2 out...
Getting back to Indy airport...

So I analyzed the taxi flow through the airport.
It is going to be very expensive taxi wise to do a conventional parallel landing like the other airports.

So I propose an alternative...
The top 2 pics show the conventional layout.
Bottom 2 show an alternative.

Here are some numbers... ( I only focus on passengers since their time is way more valuable than cargo.)
Conventional Runway to Terminal for all paths is 224 taxi tiles. Average is 8.6 tiles.
Alternative Runway to Terminal for all paths is 201 taxi tiles. Average is 7.7 tiles.
Only a 10% savings... So not worth it for landings alone...
Conventional Terminal to Takeoff for all paths is 265 taxi tiles. Average is 10.2 tiles.
Alternative Terminal to Takeoff for all paths is 163 taxi tiles. Average is 6.3 tiles.
About a 40% savings. Well worth it for that.

The only gotcha with the alternative is landings for R2 and R4 cross taxi spots for R1 and R3.
So I would have to put reservations on landing for that.
Probably lose somewhere around 5% performance. Takeoffs would be unaffected by it.
I would put a higher loss on it, but R2 and R4 are going to be used more for takeoffs anyway.
Especially R2. Since there is only 1 Takeoff order, all the internal terminals will have to be directed to one takeoff runway. In this case R2.

Anyway, let me know what you think!!

Attachment:
Indianapolis_Taxi.png [94.08 KiB]
Not downloaded yet


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:07 am 
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Go with whichever one work best. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:27 pm 
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Are there any plans to add Amsterdam Schiphol Airport?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:16 pm 
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huub007 wrote:
Are there any plans to add Amsterdam Schiphol Airport?


Not yet, but will add it.

I took a quick look at it and the only issue is the diagonal runway.
There are no tiles to do a diagonal runway.
So it is going to look like a box with runways on all 4 sides with terminals in the middle.
I'll do a mock up later today.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm 
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Quote:
There are no tiles to do a diagonal runway.

7 years ago Skidd13 drew some diagonal runway tiles in openGFX style
http://devs.openttd.org/~skidd13/gfx/runways_ready.png

Dont know what the license is and if they are useful to you...

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:47 pm 
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Vetteman06 wrote:
huub007 wrote:
Are there any plans to add Amsterdam Schiphol Airport?


Not yet, but will add it.

I took a quick look at it and the only issue is the diagonal runway.
There are no tiles to do a diagonal runway.
So it is going to look like a box with runways on all 4 sides with terminals in the middle.
I'll do a mock up later today.


Thank you very much.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:29 am 
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Quast65 wrote:
7 years ago Skidd13 drew some diagonal runway tiles in openGFX style


I am not much of a graphics artist...
My airport previews are horrible compared to some of the stuff you have done...
I am using 32bpp and therefore need sprites in 8bpp and 32bpp.
What you posted is 8bpp.
Now, if you want to create a complete set of 32bpp sprites... I'll work with you on doing the movement stuff!!
I even thought a set of 1.5 tile graphics would be cool... Since the planes are bigger...


huub007 wrote:
Thank you very much.


Here is a starting mockup...
We can work from here to fine tune it...

Attachment:
Schiphol.png
Schiphol.png [ 22.7 KiB | Viewed 2672 times ]


R1 is takeoff only for Terminals 01-07
R2 is landing only to the West.
R3 is landing only to the North
R4 is both takeoff and Landing for Terminals 08-12 and Cargo01-04

The Grey are buildings that will not be in the "No Building" option.

This cuts off the runway to the right that is smaller and the Runway that is a long taxi.
Focuses on the core of the airport.
It leaves enough space to run a road between R3 and R4 and let it go under R2.

Anyway, let me know our thoughts on it!!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:59 am 
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Quast65 wrote:
Quote:
There are no tiles to do a diagonal runway.

7 years ago Skidd13 drew some diagonal runway tiles in openGFX style
http://devs.openttd.org/~skidd13/gfx/runways_ready.png

Dont know what the license is and if they are useful to you...


I talked to Skidd13 a few years ago and he gave me permission to use any of his work under a GPLv2 license.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:16 pm 
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Quote:
I am using 32bpp and therefore need sprites in 8bpp and 32bpp.

Ahhh, I see.
Can't help you with that, I personally dont like the 32bpp style (and have never drawn in that style). I like rough pixels :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:01 am 
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Hey Guys,

Once again truly great work on this patch, love playing it! Found another bug with the city airport, theres a jam and I can move any aicraft.

I've attached a save game for you!


Attachments:
File comment: Savegame!
BUGBUG.sav [175.14 KiB]
Downloaded 38 times
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:00 pm 
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Diamond42 wrote:
Once again truly great work on this patch, love playing it! Found another bug with the city airport, theres a jam and I can move any aicraft.


I couldn't open your save game, it had many NewGRF's that I could not find...
But I have found a condition at the City airport and fixed it.
Hopefully this will be the same issue you are seeing.

The next version is going to provide a way to reset an airport.
This way you will be able to fix it on the fly.

I am trying to post the update today.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:32 pm 
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Quote:
Here is a starting mockup...
We can work from here to fine tune it...

Attachment:
Schiphol.png


R1 is takeoff only for Terminals 01-07
R2 is landing only to the West.
R3 is landing only to the North
R4 is both takeoff and Landing for Terminals 08-12 and Cargo01-04

The Grey are buildings that will not be in the "No Building" option.

This cuts off the runway to the right that is smaller and the Runway that is a long taxi.
Focuses on the core of the airport.
It leaves enough space to run a road between R3 and R4 and let it go under R2.

Anyway, let me know our thoughts on it!!


Looks nice, but Schiphol has 6 runways and I only see 4 in your mockup. But the rest looks great to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:09 am 
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:bow: :bow:

Vetteman once again you have outdone yourself! Thanks so much for the new developments, the ability to assign gates is a game changer, this is now the only build I play!

If I come across a bug in the future, rather than send a savegame would you perhaps prefer a screenshot?

Thanks again for all your hard work, I really appreciate it! Keep coming up with new features and airports - you're killing it!

Diamond42

P.S. can't find the indianapolis airport in the latest build, am I missing it :-\


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:28 am 
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Diamond42 wrote:
If I come across a bug in the future, rather than send a savegame would you perhaps prefer a screenshot?


Yes please, and if it happens while you are watching, maybe a short description.

Diamond42 wrote:
P.S. can't find the indianapolis airport in the latest build, am I missing it


It is there... but will only show up in a new game.
I forgot to add a preview sprite for it.
I'll put that in the next update.

I hate trying to do GRF stuff...
I can never get the palette right in GIMP...


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:38 am 
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huub007 wrote:
Looks nice, but Schiphol has 6 runways and I only see 4 in your mockup. But the rest looks great to me.


I had excluded them. But I will do another mockup that includes them.
Will be a little while before I post it though, going to be out of town.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:35 am 
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Hey Vetteman,

Once again thanks for the continuing work on this patch, it's amazing. Is there any way to revert to the old behaviour regarding landings? I felt that one aircraft being able to commence its decent when the other was still on the runway was a lot more realistic and more importantly increased the capacity a huge amount!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:13 am 
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Diamond42 wrote:
Is there any way to revert to the old behaviour regarding landings


I was going to work on a way to optimize landings a bit.
The old way I did it was to make the last tile of the runway a taxi tile instead of being part of the runway.
This way the runway was freed once a plane moved into that last tile.
But if the airport backed up, there would be 1 plane in that last tile and another plane would land behind it.
I didn't like that look... 2 planes on the runway.

So I thought that maybe I would create a new airport state...
This new state would allow another plane to start landing if there are 2 taxi blocks available.
This would work similar to the old way, but keep 2 planes from being on the runway at one time.
If the airport backed up, it would stop landings.

I was going to play with it and see...

Btw, post some airport pics when you get a chance.
I would like to see some of your airports in action.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:27 am 
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Absolutely!

Anything in particular you would like to see?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:01 pm 
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Diamond42 wrote:
Anything in particular you would like to see?


Multi-company in particular.
Wasn't sure I got the balance right.

Or, extremely busy airports...
Or anything cool you setup with them...

I was just curious how you or anyone was using them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:26 am 
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OK so here are a few ways I use the airports and a few things I've noticed.

Firstly I tend to make my own terminals using train stations, for example below is a main hub, I've built two concorses and have some gardens and control towers in the middle. I love that without the pre-designated buildings I can build impressive hubs and then low-cost carrier style basic terminals.

The lack of capacity with the new landing behavior is very apparent, as many gates are empty and there are long queues to circle and land. int

Some interesting behavior regarding multi company airports. When you build an aircraft in a hangar on the other side of the airport from where their company assigned gates are, it will allow you to start the vehicle but it wont leave the hangar. I guess taxi paths are only defined to nearby gates. You can get around this by sending the aircraft to its next airport and it will happily taxi out.

Secondly if a runway doesn't lead to a companies assigned gates it wont land on that runway. For example I have a company operating out of the large airport in the first picture using only 2 gates. Even though there are 4 runways, they will only ever use the runway closest to them even though others may be free. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it allows smaller airlines to get a foothold in others hubs.

One small thing I would love is the ability to define waiting times at gates at an airport, just to help get that feeling of a busy hub, seeing lots of gates full. At the moment My aircraft circle more than they sit at gates because in the game landing takes longer than a turnaround at a gate, which is the opposite ofreal life.

Overall love the patch and happy to contribute if there is anything I can do? This patch has re-invigorated my love of OpenTTD.


Attachments:
File comment: Main Hub, Larger airport with two concourses and gardens in between. Satellite concourses for other companies.
Hub2.jpg [296.6 KiB]
Not downloaded yet
File comment: Another Hub, the home airline operates out of the nice terminal in pink, with all other carriers operating from the small low-cost terminal to the left.
Hub.jpg
Hub.jpg [ 157.28 KiB | Viewed 2309 times ]
File comment: SFO airport, Ive designed a terminal using the same maglev station as in previous.
Hub3.jpg
Hub3.jpg [ 121.35 KiB | Viewed 2309 times ]
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