Transport Tycoon Forums

The place to talk about Transport Tycoon
It is currently Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:47 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:54 am 
Offline
Engineer
Engineer

Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:19 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Solingen (Germany)
When playing OpenTTD (I play it on as hard as possible, maximum inflation / loan interest / maintenance cost, activated infrastructure maintenance and 16x base costs for some stuff) it always annoyed me that short trips are loosing money. Literally loosing money, and this is already the case without much infrastructure maintenance.

Later on it's even worse and most trips with less than 20 tiles are absolutely loosing money, and I hate that you are always incentivized to build the stations as far apart as possible (shouldn't you rather try to have them closer together?)

Finally I despise that are even incentivized to not deliver your cargo to the closest industry but you rather want to transport it to the other side of the map to make much money.


With this patch it's balanced, short paths (even 3 or 4 tiles apart!) are finally worth it and nearly always make money (yes, you can do a small city bus line and earn good profits) while transporting your cargo further away is penalized.

I have 3 versions, with differing penalties for long distances

small penalty: bonus until 75 manhattan distance, and then the profits grow only 2 / 3 compared to vanilla

medium penalty: bonus until 50 manhattan distance, and then the profits grow only 1 / 2 compared to vanilla

big penalty: bonus until 37 manhattan distance, and then the profits grow only 1 / 3 compared to vanilla


And in all 3 versions: the first 4 tiles give 5 times the payment, the following 5 tiles give double payment, the following 20 tiles give 0.75 times the payments and starting from tile 30 the aforementioned penalty kicks in (and the total payment hits break-even on the mentioned distances 75, 50 and 37) => This means the bonus for distances below 30 is always the same


rgds,
Kira


Attachments:
balance_cargo_distance_payments_small_penalty_for_long_distances_r27962.patch [700 Bytes]
Downloaded 4 times
balance_cargo_distance_payments_medium_penalty_for_long_distances_r27962.patch [691 Bytes]
Downloaded 3 times
balance_cargo_distance_payments_big_penalty_for_long_distances_r27962.patch [691 Bytes]
Downloaded 5 times
Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:58 am 
Offline
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 4535
Location: home
A problem with each of your fix patches is that they only address your ideas of how it should be. Unfortunately, you are not the only player.

Obviously, you can add a zillion option settings to tune everything to whatever one desires, but perhaps it's more useful to open up these calculations to NewGRF or game scripts? (I'd prefer the latter, as scripts can have a better idea of the entire game.)

You don't want to run the actual payments through newgrf or the scripts, but they should be able to set some policy (or set some parameters or so) as to how to compute the value.

That way, everybody can have his/her favorite way of payment, etc.


EDIT: Note that backwards compatibility is required here, just changing a computation is going to break all existing savegames, which should not happen.

_________________
Being a OpenTTD developer does not mean I know what I am doing.
Also, other OpenTTD developers may have different opinions.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:12 am 
Offline
Engineer
Engineer

Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:19 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Solingen (Germany)
Alberth wrote:
A problem with each of your fix patches is that they only address your ideas of how it should be. Unfortunately, you are not the only player.


You are right, I just decided to publish my personal patches with which I played OpenTTD in the last years :)


Alberth wrote:
perhaps it's more useful to open up these calculations to NewGRF or game scripts? (I'd prefer the latter, as scripts can have a better idea of the entire game.)


It is actually possible to change the payments in a NewGRF (I've seen 2 NewGRFs which do this), but that just seems to be a fixed calculation in there.

Regarding game scripts: Isn't it only possible to run only one game script at the same time? At least it seemed like you could only run a single game script at the same time


Alberth wrote:
Obviously, you can add a zillion option settings to tune everything to whatever one desires,


Well, adding settings with parameters for my patches is easy, I could do that. Why are NewGRFs preferred to settings? Or well, like you said, game scripts, but AFAIK you can only run a single game script at the same time :(



Alberth wrote:
You don't want to run the actual payments through newgrf or the scripts, but they should be able to set some policy (or set some parameters or so) as to how to compute the value.


That sounds like a good idea (although I don't understand yet why these policy and parameters would be worse as setting options)




rgds,
Kira


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:23 pm 
Offline
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 4535
Location: home
EarthlingKira wrote:
Alberth wrote:
You don't want to run the actual payments through newgrf or the scripts, but they should be able to set some policy (or set some parameters or so) as to how to compute the value.


That sounds like a good idea (although I don't understand yet why these policy and parameters would be worse as setting options)
Settings would work if you make them static, ie the entire game you have the same payment strategy. At least I wouldn't expect many users to change the settings during the game.

NewGRF and script however have CPU time, and they can monitor what happens (to some extent). They can dynamically change the pricing based on what they observe. That's an entire new dimension of game play opening up. Obviously, this can be further extended in several directions.

You are however correct in the fact that few users can program a script, which would mean the settings would not be available for many users. I am not sure how to deal with that problem, and open for suggestions.

_________________
Being a OpenTTD developer does not mean I know what I am doing.
Also, other OpenTTD developers may have different opinions.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: JGR and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000-2018 phpBB Limited

Copyright © Owen Rudge/The Transport Tycoon Forums 2001-2018.
Hosted by Zernebok Hosting.