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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Redirect Left wrote:
it'd be nice to able to press 'Go To' when route plotting, but then have it stay in that mode when we select a station, and not have to go back and press 'Go To' again for the next station, and so on and so forth.

It'd also be pretty neat to be able to have an option which then routes the train back from its current point, through all the stations already chosen. So if i was going from A to F, via B C D & E. Usually i'd have to sleect A to F seperate, then again E to B. Would be amazing if we could just click say "end route" and then it automatically routes its way back through the identical route chosen on the return.

Are either of these viable, do you think?
If you make sure that non-stop is not selected, then your train should stop at all stations between A and B. For the return trip, just do Go To A (without Non-Stop) and your train should do the same on the return trip.
Also, in the Settings window under Company, make sure that "New orders are 'non-stop' by default" is set to off.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:57 pm 
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wallyweb wrote:
Redirect Left wrote:
it'd be nice to able to press 'Go To' when route plotting, but then have it stay in that mode when we select a station, and not have to go back and press 'Go To' again for the next station, and so on and so forth.

It'd also be pretty neat to be able to have an option which then routes the train back from its current point, through all the stations already chosen. So if i was going from A to F, via B C D & E. Usually i'd have to sleect A to F seperate, then again E to B. Would be amazing if we could just click say "end route" and then it automatically routes its way back through the identical route chosen on the return.

Are either of these viable, do you think?
If you make sure that non-stop is not selected, then your train should stop at all stations between A and B. For the return trip, just do Go To A (without Non-Stop) and your train should do the same on the return trip.
Also, in the Settings window under Company, make sure that "New orders are 'non-stop' by default" is set to off.

The issue is, I default to non stop, as most of my stuff is long distance and seperate trains for local stopping services. So when i am doing local stoppers, it's a bit of effort. I do use non-stop orders for long distance trains so they won't decide to stop everywhere and be a nuisance to other traffic,

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:05 pm 
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Redirect Left wrote:
The issue is, I default to non stop, as most of my stuff is long distance and seperate trains for local stopping services. So when i am doing local stoppers, it's a bit of effort. I do use non-stop orders for long distance trains so they won't decide to stop everywhere and be a nuisance to other traffic,
Assuming that your long distance trains have fewer orders, set non-stop to off and then set the long distance trains to non-stop in the orders window.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:09 pm 
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wallyweb wrote:
Redirect Left wrote:
The issue is, I default to non stop, as most of my stuff is long distance and seperate trains for local stopping services. So when i am doing local stoppers, it's a bit of effort. I do use non-stop orders for long distance trains so they won't decide to stop everywhere and be a nuisance to other traffic,
Assuming that your long distance trains have fewer orders, set non-stop to off and then set the long distance trains to non-stop in the orders window.



I guess that is one solution, but I reckon ideally it'd be nice to have some sub function to automatically route the train back, I think actual orders instead of the implied ones OpenTTD generates look neater, and also if you don't route some stations, the pathfinder may find a quicker or ideal route that avoids that station, which would be solved by specifically routing through it, either manually or automatically.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:26 pm 
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Redirect Left wrote:
I guess that is one solution, but I reckon ideally it'd be nice to have some sub function to automatically route the train back, I think actual orders instead of the implied ones OpenTTD generates look neater, and also if you don't route some stations, the pathfinder may find a quicker or ideal route that avoids that station, which would be solved by specifically routing through it, either manually or automatically.
Heh. I think I see what you are on to.
Go to F (return) such that (return) causes the train to work the stops inserted by OTTD in reverse and (return) suppresses a default non-stop setting for that train.
You'd still need a Go to A order, if only to get a new train from the depot to A.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:16 pm 
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Redirect Left wrote:
]it'd be nice to able to press 'Go To' when route plotting, but then have it stay in that mode when we select a station, and not have to go back and press 'Go To' again for the next station, and so on and so forth.
you know the "G" hotkey?

Quote:
It'd also be pretty neat to be able to have an option which then routes the train back from its current point, through all the stations already chosen. So if i was going from A to F, via B C D & E. Usually i'd have to sleect A to F seperate, then again E to B. Would be amazing if we could just click say "end route" and then it automatically routes its way back through the identical route chosen on the return.
that would be something to work into a complete redesign of the order GUI, which is desperately needed, but nobody really attempted so far.

it is currently overloaded with features, and some of them are hidden behind hotkeys and modifier keys (like CTRL) or sensitive of what you click on, which is difficult to communicate to users. simply adding that button you ask for would make that worse.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:41 am 
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Eddi wrote:
Redirect Left wrote:
]it'd be nice to able to press 'Go To' when route plotting, but then have it stay in that mode when we select a station, and not have to go back and press 'Go To' again for the next station, and so on and so forth.
you know the "G" hotkey?

Nope. That makes things simpler. I guess that is also part of the GUI issue, it doesn't really make these alternatives obviously known.

Another interesting issue I have, is accidentally pressing the window behind the 'go to' button (although now I know G this will not be an issue as much).
I am not sure if this only happens at certain resolutions, but the 'buy vehicle' button is unfortunately placed directly behind the 'go to' button, so a slight misclick means you get an unfortunate buy and need to fix that. Any gui updates, either in this patch or in general, may be worth changing that.
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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:41 am 
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Also in the options is "fast creation of vehicle orders" or something like that, which means Go To is automatically pressed down when you open an (empty?) vehicle's orders window. It also continues to hold down the button for you as you click round your route. Hope this has helped


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Gwyd wrote:
Also in the options is "fast creation of vehicle orders" or something like that, which means Go To is automatically pressed down when you open an (empty?) vehicle's orders window. It also continues to hold down the button for you as you click round your route. Hope this has helped


What he said, :)

It is a sub edit in 'Construction'


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:49 pm 
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lugo wrote:
Well, using jgrpp-0.28.0 and having a freight train selected, i can only cycle through "near end", "middle" and "far end".


I overlooked the appropriate setting: "Interface -> Show advanced loading mode features". :roll: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:08 am 
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I thikn all this suggests that we really need to have some sort of introductory thing in game you can start that shows you all the short cuts and how to do X and Y things.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:45 am 
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Would be possible to add to patch pack something like "rush hours"
So the town would generate different amout of passangers in specific hours. So far u can modify the amout only by increasing towns note by regular handling. Would it be possible to reverse that? So we can simulate morning and after work rush.


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:43 am 
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madrito wrote:
JGR wrote:
... I'm open to suggestions ...

suggestion is that there should be some version with prog.singnals variant somehow "better".grf or otherwise and not necessarily permanently

This is implemented, the programmable signals graphics can now be overridden by a NewGRF. See here for details.

Redirect Left wrote:
I thikn all this suggests that we really need to have some sort of introductory thing in game you can start that shows you all the short cuts and how to do X and Y things.

As much as that would be nice, someone (else) would have to volunteer to do it.

MichalSoldat wrote:
Would be possible to add to patch pack something like "rush hours"
So the town would generate different amout of passangers in specific hours. So far u can modify the amout only by increasing towns note by regular handling. Would it be possible to reverse that? So we can simulate morning and after work rush.

I don't see how it would fit in the gameplay model, really. If someone implements it and it turns out to work well I can look into the feasibility of including it though.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:13 am 
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I actually did consider the "ruch hour" feature before, because it would really make full timetabling elmore meaningful. It should not be that hard to implement (just change the current "town cargo generation factor" according to time), but I have not look in depth yet.

I end up thinking that it would require big changes because currently wall clock setting is not saved -- it is purely client setting. So you cannot rely on that for "ruch hour". If wall clock setting were to be changed to be saved in save game then I might consider implementing it.

Ideally, I want rush hour and quiet hour (e.g. night), so that frieght train would run during quiet hour, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:59 am 
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Hi there,
The last version has some bug: cloning a vehichle sometimes doesn't create new one's window


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:07 am 
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I think the problem with rush hours is that stations (especially ones in a typical commuter context) usually have a backlog. Having extra passengers being added periodically wouldn't make a huge difference to game play, and I would just have to run extra trains at all times.


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:56 am 
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Gwyd wrote:
I think the problem with rush hours is that stations (especially ones in a typical commuter context) usually have a backlog. Having extra passengers being added periodically wouldn't make a huge difference to game play, and I would just have to run extra trains at all times.

The idea would be to set passanger multipler by yourself in lets say 24 time periods. 0-1, 1-2 etc. And of course u need to make timetable witch has the same frequency as "rush hours" so it makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:58 am 
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Yes but what I'm saying is that if I have ten thousand people constantly waiting at my station, extra demand at certain hours won't change how I run services.


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:04 am 
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Gwyd wrote:
I think the problem with rush hours is that stations (especially ones in a typical commuter context) usually have a backlog. Having extra passengers being added periodically wouldn't make a huge difference to game play, and I would just have to run extra trains at all times.


Not everyone have backlog at their stations :-)

I used to think that, as many big train stations constantly have thousands of people waiting. But when I looked closely, most of them are not backlog -- they are just connecting. With train length 4 (8 cars), commuter train holds 700-900 persons, and at hub station where a lot of lines, with various services, operate from, you can easily get into thousands of people just waiting for connection in the station.

For me with extra demand, I am thinking 4-20 times the normal demand, with quiet hour have less than 10% of normal demand.


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:34 pm 
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JGR wrote:
madrito wrote:
JGR wrote:
... I'm open to suggestions ...

suggestion is that there should be some version with prog.singnals variant somehow "better".grf or otherwise and not necessarily permanently

This is implemented, the programmable signals graphics can now be overridden by a NewGRF. See here for details.

...


Yes, elegantly


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