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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:37 pm 
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Gwyd wrote:
Eddi wrote:
, just make sure all the trains have non-stop orders.

I fear you have missed the point.
i don't think i did

Quote:
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
i think this is spam.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:09 pm 
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Once again proof that a leopard can't change his spots eh Eddi?

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:43 pm 
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NekoMaster wrote:
Only thing is though is that its up to JGR to impliment it (which would be nice) and I doubt it'll be simple to make it work with so many other patches. Also gotta remember that Patch Pack creators are human too with lives and hobbies so we can't rush them to add something new.


Similarly, i totally understand that patchpack creators are not robots that can work day and night. Having 4 children and working on a trainset's sprites, i know that JGR is a human, needs to sleep, has a family, etc. And not everyone can go back to work after Christmas and New Year.

However, we can't just wait for NRT to be finished. It's still something really new, it could take years and years to finish that project, plus the related projects (NewStops, etc). If NRT would be implemented in JGR's patchpack, it would take 1 year approximatively.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:18 pm 
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Eddi wrote:
Quote:
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
i think this is spam.

Take a quick look at my profile...
I think what people wanted was a way of stopping trains without stations. Non-stop orders don't help that.

Spam bot now?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:44 pm 
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It's not spam, a SM-G935F is a Samsung Galaxy S7 if you didn't get.
Plus, Gwyd can modify (?) the text alongside the message.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:24 am 
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Hello

acs121 wrote:
However, we can't just wait for NRT to be finished.

No, we have to wait until it's (at least nearly) finished.

acs121 wrote:
If NRT would be implemented in JGR's patchpack, it would take 1 year approximatively.

From where you take this information? It was stated several times, that there are general issues with the concept, that have to be solved before the work on NRT as the concretely implementation can continue. That said, why do you assume, that a implementation of the actually half done patch into JGRPP would speed this up?

Tschö, Auge

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:16 am 
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Why do we have to ? As the add-up would be in an experimental branch of JGRpp, where is the problem ?
I don't take the info from anywhere, i justa ssume how long it would take.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Hello

acs121 wrote:
Why do we have to ?

The concept is not done yet. Obviously there are changes necessary.

acs121 wrote:
As the add-up would be in an experimental branch of JGRpp, where is the problem ?

Someone, namely JGR, had to include it, had to nurse it, had to keep the interactions with the other patches in mind, had to reimplement the obviously necessary conceptional changes every time. Andythenorth described his attempt to patch JGRPP with NRT on the last page of this thread. It's, as he stated, not trivial and it would be a never ending task because of the not done concept and the resultant changes (if these changes ever will arise). Additionally JGR stated a few times, that he is not willing to include the patch in it's current state.

Tschö, Auge

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:56 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
If NRT would be implemented in JGR's patchpack, it would take 1 year approximatively.

For clarity, what would take 1 year? :)

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Well, compiling the code and re-compiling it. Infrastructure Sharing could have problems with some road types possibly.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:07 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
Well, compiling the code and re-compiling it. Infrastructure Sharing could have problems with some road types possibly.

At a guess, I'd be surprised if getting JGT + NRT to compile would take more than a day, it's not many conflicts, and conflicts are not many lines of code.

Compiling is only one issue though, how well all the other patches work with NRT is a different issue ;)

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Squid Ate FISH (ships) (Released) | CHIPS Has Improved Players' Stations (Finished)
Iron Horse (trains, released) | Termite (tracks for Iron Horse, released) | Busy Bee (game script, released)

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Actually, i only want NRT to be with JGRpp due to InfraSharing. I actually installed that patchpack just for that.
We can live without custom bridgeheads, but not without InfraSharing though. I still don't know why trunk hasn't implemented this before. OpenTTD is a peaceful game where everyone gives it's part to everyone, not an agressive game where companies are always opponents.

For example : when there is a station in a city, and that someone wants to build a line from that city to another town, you don't have to destroy the house of 3,000 inhabitants. In trunk, you have to.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:58 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
We can live without custom bridgeheads, but not without InfraSharing though. I still don't know why trunk hasn't implemented this before

Because nobody has been able to produce a working version? :)

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FIRS Industry Replacement Set (Released) | HEQS Heavy Equipment Set (trucks, industrial trams and more) (Finished)
Squid Ate FISH (ships) (Released) | CHIPS Has Improved Players' Stations (Finished)
Iron Horse (trains, released) | Termite (tracks for Iron Horse, released) | Busy Bee (game script, released)

Road Hog (road vehicles, released)


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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:13 am 
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Yes, there are some issues with IS, sometimes even with the enabled settings you can't buy vehicles in another's depot/hangar.
Though it works very well, and if there was enough demand for it, i'm sure trunk would already have implemented this.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 am 
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acs121 wrote:
if there was enough demand for it, i'm sure trunk would already have implemented this.
Nope, trunk requires technical maturity no matter how popular a feature would be.

Developing a patch outside trunk is always simpler than within trunk. For example, you don't have to worry about compatibility with a previous version (required by trunk for loading a save game into a newer version).

If, in that simpler context, nobody found a proper solution, it is a strong sign that either there is no proper solution, or it is a difficult problem. Making the problem bigger by adding more requirements is not going to give a solution faster.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Yes, i know, there always is the compatibility with previous versions problem, and that is one huge one for implementing to trunk things like IS, NRT or NMF.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
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Finally this lazy forum is becoming lively with some drama :P

Alberth wrote:
Nope, trunk requires technical maturity no matter how popular a feature would be.


Would you accept my window border decorations patch into trunk? No one ever requested this feature, but it's mature and won't break saves.


Attachments:
File comment: window border decorations
Screenshot_2018-01-10-16-56-31.png [475.7 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:21 pm 
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I like it, personally. I used it on the mobile game.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Alberth wrote:
Developing a patch outside trunk is always simpler than within trunk. For example, you don't have to worry about compatibility with a previous version (required by trunk for loading a save game into a newer version).

acs121 wrote:
Yes, i know, there always is the compatibility with previous versions problem, and that is one huge one for implementing to trunk things like IS, NRT or NMF.

Backwards savegame compatibility is really not difficult.
Even huge and outlandish patches should be able to fully and completely achieve this.

Policy is more of an issue than technical implementation for things like Infrastructure Sharing.
If everyone of influence agreed on how exactly it should work and wanted that specific implementation in trunk, implementing that and putting it in trunk would be easy.
However there is no meaningful consensus at any level for how exactly it should work, and (to my eyes) there is negligible appetite for the feature at all from the trunk devs. Therefore the probability of it ending up in trunk is effectively 0.
Therefore there is no point in me spending any of my time making it more palatable to trunk, when I can more productively spend that time making it more palatable to my tastes and those of the people who send me feature requests.

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 Post subject: Re: JGR's Patch Pack
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:43 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
Yes, there are some issues with IS, sometimes even with the enabled settings you can't buy vehicles in another's depot/hangar.

Other companies have to allow this, in the settings.


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