Palm WebOs - Openttd

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forge33
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Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by forge33 »

So I was playing around with the PDK the other day and got OpenTTD running on WebOs.

Once you root your palm(really enabling developer mode)
just follow this guide
http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Internals_PDK

once the cross compiler is built, get a source copy of openttd and extract it to a directory.
you can then follow the instructions used for building Doom
http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bui ... cratchbox2

$ cd <to the openttd source dir>
$ sb2 -M /srv/preware/cross-compile/staging/mapping-armv7
[SB2 mapping-armv7 armv7] $ ./configure --with-sdl-prefix=/usr/local
[SB2 mapping-armv7 armv7] $ make

once built you can scp the openttd files to your palm pre and start playing.

- forge33
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by Zutty »

Sweeeeeeet! :D Didn't think it would be so simple!

Do you recon once the 1.4 firmware is released, a binary release could be made and put onto the App Catalog?
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by forge33 »

Hey Zutty,
I looked into this quickly and it might be hard getting it into the App catalog because many of the features don't meet minimum requirements... I think icons have to be 48x48.. which openttd has nothing of at the moment(the ds port looks interesting) ---- (Notice how Quake and Doom aren't in the official App catalog, although they don't really have usable ui's or key mappings from when I tried them)

Here's the Application Checklist for submitting to the App Catalog
http://developer.palm.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=20
And the UI Interface Guidelines
http://developer.palm.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=20

Currently I'm running the game at 510x340 (kinda weird) I find if I go any lower it has a hard time drawing the menus - I have an idea where this fix can be done but I haven't had the time to play around more(i believe http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1950 - this wraps the toolbars if the screen res is smaller then a certain size, 500px I believe)
I had to manually set this in the ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg file

Also it helps if all the News alerts in the game are set to summary instead of full so you dont have 1807458734 popups when you play ( the X on the news popup is really hard to press)

I can't think of any other customizations that I've done at the moment...

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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by supermop »

Hello, please excuse a somewhat forward first post here, but I have been lurking in these fora off and on since 2004, and this is the first development to move me enough to register.

In addition to a 16 year fan of TT, I am a proud user of WebOs, and I would love to see OTTD made available on the platform. I am enthusiastic about the potential of reaching out to many new potential players by being able to distribute through the official application catalog. To this end, I registered to volunteer my help in any potential project to make this happen.

I am not to familiar with underlying machinery of WebOs, or and programming for that matter, but I am a design professional, and would be willing and able to help with any graphical work that needs doing to optimize OTTD for the Palm Pre/Pixi, and to get it to the level of polish needed for Palm's store.

Best,
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by forge33 »

Hey Supermop,
It`s doable from what I see, just the amount of time and effort required in getting there.

Basing myself off of http://wiki.openttd.org/Portable_device_version , and what I've seen so far - the work is mainly around the UI & screen resolution since almost everything else works.

Palm Pre: 480x320
Palm Pixi: 320x400

The work looks like it would only need a UI resize and fixing the menu bar for the smaller resolution (since my tests have concluded that if I put the resolution to 480x320, artifacts start showing up on screen + menu bar offset oddly, press on a green map tile and you get a menu popup)...

Also, if we can't make it so it fits the requirements of the Palm App Catalog, there are other sources like PreWare( http://preware.org/) or OptWare (http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/Packages) that we can submit packages to.

I can start making a list of all the changes that need to be made for this to happen.

Patrick
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by Ben_K »

Great stuff! I was going to ask about this on PreCentral but I guess there is no need!

I don't have a lot of free time but if I can help, please give me a shout!
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by supermop »

Sorry I haven't chimed in here in awhile. I am glad that at least a few other Palm users out there might be interested. I think It would be great if whatever we end up with is at least nominally compliant with the checklist Palm wants developers to use. A few issues immediately spring into even my non-programming oriented mind, however. The processing power/RAM of the WebOs devices is pretty anemic compared to all but the oldest personal computers for which current OTTD development is happening. This probably wont be too much of an issue early in the game on small maps, but can we realistically expect it to be as responsive as Palm wants applications to be (starting in 3 seconds etc.) Palm allows for exceptions to this, but OTTD does not currently have anything like a loading screen that might work for this situation that I am aware of.

A lot of the interaction issues may or may not be problematic as far as I can tell. Palm would like specific types of transitions between "scenes", but OTTD doesn't really have "scenes" like this, that is, everything is taking place on the map, so there is no need to try to program a cross-fade to other content. However, given the size of the screens on these devices, it may not be helpful to have several windows popping up all over the place. Ideally, I feel like the smallmap should appear as another card that pops up over the entire screen, and can then be hidden again when the user is done consulting it. This could work well for other large windows like the train list as well, but it would likely require a huge departure from the way OTTD works now, and may well be out of the scope of this project.

The application checklist also addresses saving, and I feel like this could be helpful as well. I think autosave should be disabled by default for the webos version, as the slowdowns caused would be very noticeable, and likely frustrating if the user only has a short amount of time to be playing per session (on a train, in a waiting room). Furthermore, navigating a huge list of autosave files would be a pain on the tiny screen, and rarely helpful to the average casual user. Instead I think it would be best to save automatically when the card is thrown away, or maybe when it is minimized, in keeping with this checklist point: " When the user edits content in a scene and throws the card away, the changes are saved." If the behavior was more like a "save" than a "save as", overwriting the last saved instance of the file, so much the better.

As far as look and feel is concerned, this is where I might be able to provide the most help. Buttons should be at least 48x48 pixels, not for Palm's sake so much as ours, as tapping small small areas can be very frustrating. Does this mean there will need to be new button graphics drawn? If so I am happy to help. Can this be changed in newgrf, or will it require serious patching? If we do decide to seriously rework menus, we should try to nest many of the buttons, so as not to have too much of the screen occupied with buttons.

Current OTTD users already have an emotion investment in the game and can generally put up patiently with a lot of its quirks. Personally I would expect a slow and awkward experience on my Pre, and would just be happy to have a mobile version at all. If we decide to use this as an opportunity to reach out to new users, however, it will likely be necessary to make a serious effort at optimizing the game for the platform insofar as that is possible by a handful of people. Something as simple as having the default map size be very small, and bundling a newgrf of very few, generic vehicle could go a long way in lowering the bar to entry, and maybe improve performance for new users.

Anyway, these suggestions are pretty ambitious, but might be helpful in thinking about whether a polished "app store" approach makes sense for OTTD.

Best,
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by Ben_K »

Good points supermop. I agree with your views on this. It would be nice to keep it inline with the Palm design criteria, where possible. I also like the idea of seperate cards for certain menus/windows. I also agree about the 'autosave on closing' idea and the small maps and GRF set limits. It does change the port from the OTTD main but if it has to be done, then maybe we have to take that hit. (It's like a Nintendo DS version of a PS3/360/PC game, they do the same)

I have an unofficial OTTD port for my PSP at home. Similarly, due to the PSP hardware restraints, they had made some minor alterations but it was certainly playable (I was using newGRFs etc.)! Maybe taking a look at that might give us some pointers?
- Their 'official' page
- A thread on tt-forums

I guess we are also fortunate in that OTTD already has a linux port too.
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by supermop »

I guess a good way to get some more momentum behind this is to figure out what helpful work we can accomplish via NewGRF alone. If we are unable or unwilling to put strict limits on certain things in the version, it might be best to bundle (not good for download over air) or link to and strongly suggest a very pared down set of GRFs similar to OpenGRX.
I would like to personally start looking into how to optimize the graphical experience of OTTD on webOs, as this is the area in which I can be of most help. I am thinking that simplified sprites might be more legible and identifiable on a small screen.

more later,
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by forge33 »

Sorry if I haven't posted in a while. The company I work for was acquired by a competitor to Palm, so for legal reasons I might not be able to contribute further. We'll see in a couple weeks if I can continue...

*crossing fingers*
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by Ben_K »

Ahhh, Forge! If you hadn;t have said that, no-one would know any different! ;)
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by supermop »

I don't see any legal reasons why you couldn't, but then many tech companies have arcane and bizarre non-compete policies etc. Here's to hoping you are able to continue!

I have been a little aprehensive about WebOs' future developement the past few months, but news I've heard out of HP suggests that they want to develop it as an in-house alternative OS for all sorts of "thin" devices in their line up, from small tablets to printers (!?). Could get interesting.

Best,
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by audigex »

Just don't do it in the office and they can go hang ;) what you do on your own time is up to you.
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by forge33 »

Rawr
Havent replied here in a while.

Also haven't done any openttd stuff in a while, maybe ill check out trunk and see if it still builds for the pre.
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by SebastianHa »

Hi,

I compiled the latest version of openttd successfully for the HP TouchPad (runs webOS). Now I would like to submit it to the AppCatalog and would like to know if I have to consider anything special or if I just can submit it under GPL.

BTW: It runs very well and it's really playable.
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by FooBar »

Make sure you include all files that normally come with OpenTTD (readme, changelog, etc.).
Make sure you don't include the original TTD graphics or sound files.
Make clear that in case of a bug people should contact you and not the OpenTTD Developers.
And don't tamper with the version number/info.

That, and what the GPL instructs you to do, is what I think you should consider. But then I'm not a Dev, so it might be wise to wait for a Dev to reply. :D

Oh, and you might want to check the terms of the AppCatalog to see if HP accepts GPL'ed software. This to avoid a second Apple AppStore debacle (Apple's rules forbid GPL'ed software).
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by SebastianHa »

that sounds good. So for graphics i could use the opengfx files?!

you can choose gpl as license for webos apps, so that is no problem.

thank you very much so far.
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by planetmaker »

Yes, you can ship OpenGFX and OpenMSX. Make sure to then ship the tar as-is (it includes readme and license) or also ship its readme. OpenSFX has a separate license (creative common sampling plus) and prohibits somewhat commercial distribution...

Concerning OpenTTD itself I'd like to stress what FooBar already said:
* if unpatched OpenTTD compiles fine, that's great. If you patched it to some degree please do not temper with the version string to make it "compatible" with any existing version. Rather submit the necessary patches to our bug tracker and then the next stable release might be shipped without additional need for patches.
* make sure that you're mentioned as point-of-contact for trouble with that binary.

Cheers,
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by supermop »

Nice, with the touchpad out, was just thinking about this the other day. I'll get it on my pre as soon as its available!
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Re: Palm WebOs - Openttd

Post by SebastianHa »

Will be very hard to play on that small screen. I tried it but you cannot hit any button. So I think it will be a TouchPad only release. If you like to test it on your pre sent me a message with your mail address. I can sent you the ipk then.
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