Automated timetables and separation

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Freak_NL
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by Freak_NL »

jungle:
Sounds like a design platform/track issue. Have you considered using waypoints to give each line and direction its own platform on that junction station?
junction.png
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by Grandmaster »

To my knowledge this patch can't handle waypoints and a track design issue is not the issue here. I have the same problem if i switch this patch on in chillcore's patchpack. I have sometimes more then 6 different passenger lines and freight trains using my stations. I can not place a dedicated platform for every line that is using my station. Some stations would be very wide then. Because of the way the auto separation is implemented i simply switch it off and put in the timetables myself for every train so i can use waypoints again. It is some work, but my trains hardly have to wait at stations because of a blocking from another train.
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by jungle »

Freak_NL:

It is true that would solve the problem, but it isn't really feasible when doing a big passenger destinations network in anything other than a 'very flat' scenario (both due to space and cost of track), or when doing trams inside cities since there are no waypoints for trams...

A demo or two of the issue in a savegame coming up shortly...
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by jungle »

Proved to take longer to trigger than I thought - but here it is with trams:

You'll notice the trams in the station causing the problem all think they are early. The longer you leave it running in that situation, the 'earlier' the trams believe they are, although it does vary a bit.

Switch off autoseparation - on both routes - and the traffic returns to normal (although bunched up a lot).

Then switch it back on and (eventually - it may take a while) it will pass some kind of tipping point and jam again. Admittedly this system is quite heavily loaded - but it does function reasonably without automatic timetabling. I think it's likely that the more routes there are going through one 'platform', the less actual overloading would be needed to set off the problem, so this probably isn't the best example: but it does occur regularly in other games.

GRFs: eGRVTS 1.0 (that's it) Build: most recent 'Cargodist with sprinkles' (r19733m)
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Freak_NL
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by Freak_NL »

I completely forgot about waypoints not working well with separation yet, sorry about that.

Jungle:
You could use a different "Town cargo generation factor" (in Economy » Towns) to lessen the amount of passengers a bit. It looks a bit silly to have 20 trams queued up and 400 passengers waiting at a single tram halt, as you have in your savegame. The map you are playing is also very crowded, you might want to generate a map with more space between the towns.
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by Creat »

Just so you know, your patch no longer applies cleanly against a current Cargodist checkout (no idea about trunk).
Even though it's just two trivial merges in command.cpp it might be an obstacle for some people...
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by michielh »

Is the bug concerning the waypoints going to be fixed? It would make this patch a lot more usefull :)
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by Flying Tiger »

Hey,

I'm running Ottd with Cargodist.This patch should be included.
Because my passenger trains always end up driving around on groups i decided to set them on a timetable. I read the instructions on wiki and set up a timetable on one of my main express lines. First I automated it, to see how much time the trains need for reaching their desinations. Then I turned Automate off, set the times and a start date. With the start date I also seperated the trains along the route.
Unfortunately it didn't make any difference. Instead of the trains keeping themselves to the timetable, the timetable is modified every time a train is early or late. This way the trains clog up together again. The timetable aways states the vehicle is running on time.

Can anyone tell me what is wrong? I did some searches but I cannot ffigure it out...
Thanks!
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by Grandmaster »

Flying Tiger wrote:Hey,

I'm running Ottd with Cargodist.This patch should be included.
Because my passenger trains always end up driving around on groups i decided to set them on a timetable. I read the instructions on wiki and set up a timetable on one of my main express lines. First I automated it, to see how much time the trains need for reaching their desinations. Then I turned Automate off, set the times and a start date. With the start date I also seperated the trains along the route.
Unfortunately it didn't make any difference. Instead of the trains keeping themselves to the timetable, the timetable is modified every time a train is early or late. This way the trains clog up together again. The timetable aways states the vehicle is running on time.

Can anyone tell me what is wrong? I did some searches but I cannot ffigure it out...
Thanks!
You should set the line "automatically managed timetable" to red or no or whatever. Do not use that. It means that the patch will not recalculate your timetables over and over again. If a train is late and it has no chance to recover from it's lateness it will stay late.
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by peebee »

michielh wrote:Is the bug concerning the waypoints going to be fixed? It would make this patch a lot more usefull :)
Just a little push for this question. Without a fix this patch doesn't make sense for me.
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by Creat »

Am I wrong to assume, that this patch is dead? There hasn't been a reply from the original author in 2 months...
If that's the case I'll move on and try to find another solution to keep vehicles apart, there has to be more than one way that this was solved...
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by DeMoraatz »

I have downloaded Chill's patchpack, which contains this patch.

This is the game I just started to try out this patch:
Ninningbury Transport, 13th Dec 1920.png
(288.56 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
I don't get it working correctly. So a few questions:

Does the daylength patch affect this patch? I mean there will be 0 days traveltime if you have the factor at 9.
Do the trams (in this case) have to be in the same group?
I cloned the 2nd to 5th tram for the 1st, but the button which says they share the timetable is not on.
so what I basicly ask: How do I use this?

Regards

Meastro444
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by ChillCore »

Meastro444 wrote: I have downloaded Chill's patchpack, which contains this patch.
Then it is not here you should be complaining, please. I have mentioned it a few times already in my thread.
I don't get it working correctly. So a few questions:
Does the daylength patch affect this patch? I mean there will be 0 days traveltime if you have the factor at 9.
This patch does not contain daylenght.
The travel time is shorter then 1 day's daylenght therefore 0.
Do the trams (in this case) have to be in the same group?
I cloned the 2nd to 5th tram for the 1st, but the button which says they share the timetable is not on.
Vehicles do not share timetables, they share orders. Then timetables are calculated. Based on the timetables vehicles are seperated.
so what I basicly ask: How do I use this?
- Set show timetables in ticks in Advanced Settings->Interface to avoid the 0 days timetable when using a daylenght patch. (This is the only thing I will comment on here that has nothing to do with this patch.)
- Set Automatically managed timetables to on in Advanced Settings->Vehicles.
- One switch below set Use timetable to ensure vehicles seperation.
- Clone vehicles while pressing CTRL so the order are shared.
- Click automate to have the timetables calculated automatically and vehicles seperated.

Do not use waypoints or depot orders as that will cause your vehicles to no longer be seperated correctly. <- this is something that still has to be fixed in this patch.
-- .- -.-- / - .... . / ..-. --- .-. -.-. . / -... . / .-- .. - .... / -.-- --- ..- .-.-.-
--- .... / -.-- . .- .... --..-- / .- -. -.. / .--. .-. .- .. ... . / - .... . / .-.. --- .-. -.. / ..-. --- .-. / .... . / --. .- ...- . / ..- ... / -.-. .... --- --- -.-. .... --- --- ... .-.-.- / ---... .--.

Playing with my patchpack? Ask questions on usage and report bugs in the correct thread first, please.
All included patches have been modified and are no longer 100% original.
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by DeMoraatz »

ChillCore wrote:
Meastro444 wrote: I have downloaded Chill's patchpack, which contains this patch.
Then it is not here you should be complaining, please. I have mentioned it a few times already in my thread.
I don't get it working correctly. So a few questions:
Does the daylength patch affect this patch? I mean there will be 0 days traveltime if you have the factor at 9.
This patch does not contain daylenght.
The travel time is shorter then 1 day's daylenght therefore 0.
Do the trams (in this case) have to be in the same group?
I cloned the 2nd to 5th tram for the 1st, but the button which says they share the timetable is not on.

Vehicles do not share timetables, they share orders. Then timetables are calculated. Based on the timetables vehicles are seperated.

so what I basicly ask: How do I use this?
- Set show timetables in ticks in Advanced Settings->Interface to avoid the 0 days timetable when using a daylenght patch. (This is the only thing I will comment on here that has nothing to do with this patch.)
- Set Automatically managed timetables to on in Advanced Settings->Vehicles.
- One switch below set Use timetable to ensure vehicles seperation.
- Clone vehicles while pressing CTRL so the order are shared.
- Click automate to have the timetables calculated automatically and vehicles seperated.

Do not use waypoints or depot orders as that will cause your vehicles to no longer be seperated correctly. <- this is something that still has to be fixed in this patch.
1st. I said where I got it from. Since it is about this patch, I think it is more relevant to post it here. Also, I am not complaining, I am asking for help.
2nd. Dammit, I know this ain't the daylength patch. I was asking if it affected it. Knowing the behaviour of 1''s and 0''s, some patches may act wierdly when confronted with those numbers.
3rd. I didn't know the bolded article, thank you for that.

Chillcore, I am not totally ignorant about what goes on here, please be aware of that.

Regards

Meastro
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by ChillCore »

Chillcore, I am not totally ignorant about what goes on here, please be aware of that.
Then you also know that half the patches I have in my patchpack are rewritten to be able to merge them into it ...

1. Since your are playing with a patchpack it is relevant to report there first. You can always report in the other thread later ...
See here for an example why:
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... start=1685
8 posts and a waste of time to figure out that the bug is caused by a patchpack (Yes, mine) and that there is in fact no bug present. Just because someone did not test first with clean trunk ...
There are more examples if you want.

2. No need to get excited ... Also there is more then 1 Daylengt patch. You really expect Gathers to go through 30.000 of unfamiliar code lines to figure out what causes the 0 travel time lenght? I'm sure you don't.

3. Glad to be able to help.
You can also clone orders when clicking a vehicle.
Buy vehicle. Open orders gui. Instead of clicking a station click a vehicle (running around or in depot). Again CTRL while doing so will make them shared.

Calling someone ignorant is not my style ;)

Regards,
ChillCore.
-- .- -.-- / - .... . / ..-. --- .-. -.-. . / -... . / .-- .. - .... / -.-- --- ..- .-.-.-
--- .... / -.-- . .- .... --..-- / .- -. -.. / .--. .-. .- .. ... . / - .... . / .-.. --- .-. -.. / ..-. --- .-. / .... . / --. .- ...- . / ..- ... / -.-. .... --- --- -.-. .... --- --- ... .-.-.- / ---... .--.

Playing with my patchpack? Ask questions on usage and report bugs in the correct thread first, please.
All included patches have been modified and are no longer 100% original.
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by DeMoraatz »

I wasn't talking about a bug, I didn't how it worked. So I asked the patchmaker for help. If I run into more problems with your patchpack I'll ask you.
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by Grandmaster »

Meastro444 wrote:I wasn't talking about a bug, I didn't how it worked. So I asked the patchmaker for help. If I run into more problems with your patchpack I'll ask you.
The patch maker isn't here anymore. But even so. You asked something about a patch in relationship to another patch. If that is the case then the patch maker of patch 1 would most likely never know, but the person that merged the patches together will. I understand your reason of asking it here, but Chillcore is right.

Any question about a patch what you use witch his patch pack you must ask inside his tread.
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by NCarlson »

Any particular reason this seems to have died? Has anyone adopted it, or tried to recreate it? We really need something like this if cargodist/cargodest ever makes it.
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by Alberth »

NCarlson wrote:Any particular reason this seems to have died? Has anyone adopted it, or tried to recreate it? We really need something like this if cargodist/cargodest ever makes it.
Please stop posting these silly "he, I want this feature, why is nobody fixing it for me?" posts, bumping old topics for nothing.

I you had cared to read even just the last post, there is a reason listed right there. From the fact that nobody posted an update in the last 3 months, it is plain obvious that no news exists for this patch.

Last but not least, if you want this feature, do some work yourself.
If you have results to show, your are more than welcome to post them here.


With respect to time tabling, I have consistently failed to get any form of time tabling working in my games. Until I see something that actually works, I won't spend time on it.
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Re: Automated timetables and separation

Post by MagicBuzz »

Hello,

I have a small idea.
I didn't checked if it's possible (but I guess it is).

Why not creating an AI API in order to allow AIs to use the separation feature ?
Most of the time, I see AIs building vehicles that are not correctly separated, and they have bad ratings, while I have better rattings with a fewer vehicles on the same line.

In programmation terms, I'm not sure, but I think it may be changed in a few lines of code.

What about it ?

I may work on it if people are interrested in it.
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