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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:51 am 
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Thief^ wrote:
Clear out your openttd.ini's yapp/pbs sections (or delete it entirely). That layout should work, but the old pbs/yapp pathfinder penalties from the older pbs can cause trouble.


compleate path to what i need to clear out please (form the openttd base dir)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:31 am 
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Does this mean PBS will be in the 0.6.4 or 0.6.5?

That would be great!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:37 am 
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B-b0y wrote:
Does this mean PBS will be in the 0.6.4 or 0.6.5?

That would be great!


No, you have to wait for 0.7 for that. No new features in 0.6.x. If you want more elaboration make a search, since this question pops up every now and then.


dasy2k1 wrote:
Thief^ wrote:
Clear out your openttd.ini's yapp/pbs sections (or delete it entirely). That layout should work, but the old pbs/yapp pathfinder penalties from the older pbs can cause trouble.


compleate path to what i need to clear out please (form the openttd base dir)


<openttd-dir>\openttd.ini

Open it and look for the yapp/pbs sections.


Note that changing the openttd.ini only affects new games. To change yapp/pbs settings of your existing games you need to use the in game console for that.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:07 am 
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Zuu wrote:
B-b0y wrote:
Does this mean PBS will be in the 0.6.4 or 0.6.5?

That would be great!


No, you have to wait for 0.7 for that. No new features in 0.6.x. If you want more elaboration make a search, since this question pops up every now and then.


dasy2k1 wrote:
Thief^ wrote:
Clear out your openttd.ini's yapp/pbs sections (or delete it entirely). That layout should work, but the old pbs/yapp pathfinder penalties from the older pbs can cause trouble.


compleate path to what i need to clear out please (form the openttd base dir)


<openttd-dir>\openttd.ini

Open it and look for the yapp/pbs sections.


Note that changing the openttd.ini only affects new games. To change yapp/pbs settings of your existing games you need to use the in game console for that.

The file is called openttd.cfg, not .ini. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:51 am 
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whoops...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:53 pm 
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Created in nightly 14583 Windows 2000 32bit (also tested on Vista 64bit)
Fresh install - no config file present. (also tested on not so fresh install with config file present)
The included savegame did have a config file present. I can attach a savegame from the fresh install but its the same result.

I have included a screenshot and a save game.
When looking at the screenshot you will see two stations (A and B)

There is a train called "Sim Crash" that has been stoped to simulate a crash :) within a pbs block and train "Tester" to well test the PBS setup.

In the savegame train "tester" is stoped in depot next to town B.
Just start it. It is set to move to Town B --> Town A --> Town B
As it passes Town A and gets up to the PBS junction (behind Train Sim. Crash) it will stop at the junktion with the msg "Waiting for a free path" - even though there is a free path on the middle takeover lane.

I have done several tests. If i place the "Sim Crash" train on the takeover track it self then all train move normal through the PBS junktion both on Town A --> Town B and Town B --> A. (even with two trains entering the block at the same time)

If i place "Sim Crash" on the Town B --> Town A track then the train stops at the junktion just after Town B with the msg "Waiting for free path".

I use one way PBS signal on the main line. Two way PBS signal "reversed" in front of stations and Two way PBS signals on the take over track. (also tested with only two way signals - same result)

I just dont get it :)

Arda

Image


Attachments:
PBS test - Waiting for free path.sav [103.86 KiB]
Downloaded 70 times
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:55 pm 
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I haven't tried, but I would suggest to copy the blue circled signals to the red circles. (see attachment)

This way the penalty to go either way will be equal, if there is no train. And with the train on the main-track as in the picture, the main-track will get a higher penalty than the other one.

As it is now I guess that the middle track has higher penalty value than the track with the "crash" train on it.


If I'm not mistaken trains does only calculates the penalties for all options and then check the cheapest route if it is free. There is a penalty for train on track however, but it does not check alternative options if the cheapest route is blocked.


Attachments:
fix.PNG
fix.PNG [ 60.63 KiB | Viewed 4260 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Zuu wrote:
If I'm not mistaken trains does only calculates the penalties for all options and then check the cheapest route if it is free. There is a penalty for train on track however, but it does not check alternative options if the cheapest route is blocked.
It's more that the penalty for taking the free route is higher than the penalty for waiting for the train. As it always takes the route with the lowest penalty it has to wait.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:58 pm 
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zuu's technique should work, by giving the tracks the same signal penalty, the empty track will get the train penalty and will be a weaker option...

basically, the penalty for the train is less than for the back of a signal, as long as you use one way signals where you need it it will work.

I think there's also some command line command to reduce the "signal back" penalty? I might be wrong though. Set that to 0 and make sure you use all 1-way signals when on 1-way track and you're away. It's more realistic anyhow.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:17 am 
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It's a patch option, which can be set in the config file or with the console.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:26 am 
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Brianetta wrote:
It's a patch option, which can be set in the config file or with the console.

Excellent! Hadn't come across this before. Thanks.

If you want to change it, it's in ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg , or wherever else your openttd.cfg is. Mine's currently (originally) set as so: yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty = 1500

I might have a fiddle with the other _penalty values and see what happens.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:41 am 
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Set that high it looks like it would need 5 squares of reserved track on the other route to equalize it (if I'm reading this right), not including the possibly different length of the route. Perhaps lower it to 800?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:45 am 
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xerxesdaphat wrote:
Brianetta wrote:
It's a patch option, which can be set in the config file or with the console.

Excellent! Hadn't come across this before. Thanks.

If you want to change it, it's in ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg , or wherever else your openttd.cfg is. Mine's currently (originally) set as so: yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty = 1500

I might have a fiddle with the other _penalty values and see what happens.


Note that changing the value in the openttd.cfg file only impact new games. For existing saved games, you need to load the game, open the console (~-key, or use the menu option in the ?-menu to the right) and then type the right command to change the patch option.

(I don't remember exactly how the command looks like , but can be found with some searching. There is even built in documentatin on which commands exist in the console. - not as good sa the man-pages but still you can find out things if you know what you are looking for)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:10 am 
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Thief^ wrote:
Set that high it looks like it would need 5 squares of reserved track on the other route to equalize it (if I'm reading this right), not including the possibly different length of the route. Perhaps lower it to 800?

You're reading it right :) Penalty for one reserved track is 300 by default, so 1500 equals 5 tiles. In practice this should be no problem as most trains are longer than one tile meaning that you won't need much reservation in front to counter the signal penalty. In this specific case, there's of course also the standard YAPF curve penalty to consider, but that's nothing new with YAPP.

-- Michael Lutz

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:46 pm 
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Zuu wrote:
xerxesdaphat wrote:
Brianetta wrote:
It's a patch option, which can be set in the config file or with the console.

Excellent! Hadn't come across this before. Thanks.

If you want to change it, it's in ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg , or wherever else your openttd.cfg is. Mine's currently (originally) set as so: yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty = 1500

I might have a fiddle with the other _penalty values and see what happens.


Note that changing the value in the openttd.cfg file only impact new games. For existing saved games, you need to load the game, open the console (~-key, or use the menu option in the ?-menu to the right) and then type the right command to change the patch option.

(I don't remember exactly how the command looks like , but can be found with some searching. There is even built in documentatin on which commands exist in the console. - not as good sa the man-pages but still you can find out things if you know what you are looking for)


type "list_patches pf" (without quotes) to display all pathfinder related patch variables (to be exact, all variables that start with "pf")
type "patch [var] [value]" (without quotes) to set one of them to a new value

e.g. "patch pf.yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty 1000" to set it from 1500 or whatever it currently is to 1000.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:16 pm 
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Zuu: I cant move the signals as this is just a block that will be copied 30-40 times into a full main line. (without the stations and depoes.)
If i dont have any singals on the overtake line then it only takes just one train to block the entire line. You had no way of knowing that though. I just wanted to mention it.

I gradualy reduced the signal back penalty until the "waiting for free path" train started moving on the overtake line. I had to set it as low as 210 - down from 1500.

It works now. I still have to do some tweaking, but the design as i wanted it is starting to take shape.

Arda


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:59 am 
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Arda wrote:
Zuu: I cant move the signals as this is just a block that will be copied 30-40 times into a full main line. (without the stations and depoes.)
If i dont have any singals on the overtake line then it only takes just one train to block the entire line. You had no way of knowing that though. I just wanted to mention it.

I gradualy reduced the signal back penalty until the "waiting for free path" train started moving on the overtake line. I had to set it as low as 210 - down from 1500.

It works now. I still have to do some tweaking, but the design as i wanted it is starting to take shape.

Arda



I also met similar problem, and my solution is to put a plain one-way signal at the straight route, about a block or two after the junction (NOT immediately after -- I did not want it to be an exit-signal). This enables robust movement, and even if the other track is occupied by trains from adjacent line or the other side, the train moving forward won't foul the junction.

To be a bit more elaborate...
Code:
   =>===]==]==>===
     x         x
   =}={=======}={=
     x         x
   ===<==[==[===<=

  > = One-way YAPP signal
  } = YAPP signal
  ] = One-way plain signal
  x = scissors crossover


In other words, I make crossovers for minimum of every *two* blocks instead of one.
If trains want to overtake they should spend more length to do it anyway.

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