Path Based Signalling!!! (pbs v080)

acidd_uk · Post by **acidd_uk** » 14 Apr 2005 16:20

Weird thing with PBS - my trains will not advance through green PBS signals. Take a look at the attached savegame - two trains are both waiting on green signals.... Is this a bug or is this me being dumb with my network layout? All in all, PBS rocks!

Edit: This is using the latest windows build 178.

Asterix · Post by **Asterix** » 14 Apr 2005 16:49

well, basically PBS checks, if the next signal it has to pass is green before entering a PBS-block.
currently everything between two PBS-signals is considered a PBS-block, so your trains check if the next signal after their current one is red or green. These are red in your savegame. in the one-way-parts you could solve it by putting a normal (non-PBS) signal between the two PBS-signals.

acidd_uk · Post by **acidd_uk** » 14 Apr 2005 17:15

Hmm, I can see the logic to that for regular signals. But if the look-ahead signal is a red PBS signal, then would it be possible to do a preliminary look-ahead for that signal, and so on... Because looking ahead and finding a red PBS signal means that you may be able to proceed, whereas looking ahead to a regular red signal means you cannot proceed. Hmm, need to think about that...

Edit: Ok, thought about it. If the look ahead signal is the entrance to the pbs block, then if it's red, check to see if there's an available route though the pbs block. If there is, then proceed as normal. Would that work in the general case?

Hackykid · Post by **Hackykid** » 14 Apr 2005 17:28

@Hazelrah

Hmm... a wiki page, interesting idea...
On one hand it would be nice to put up some info about pbs on the wiki, on the other hand, pbs is still changing a lot, and its not so cool if i have to update this thread AND the wiki page each time...
Maybe a very simple page, and a link to this thread could work...
Best place to discuss such stuff, would be irc imo, when i'm online i'm usually there (#openttd at freenode).

@Goldwyn

Hmmm, i see, building a road on a rail tile resets the reserved status...
Well its known now, anyway

@acid_uk

Well, basicly what Asterix said, it wait for the EXIT signal to be green, and your straight tracks are considered pbs junctions cause they have pbs signals on both sides.
Also, the 2-way tracks can cause crashes/other bad stuff, cause they can be entered from both sides, and currently a train cant know if another train has planned to enter it from the other side.
BUT, i've also thought of track layouts like this, and i think it would be really neat

,
I'm gonna add some new pbs signal types to make stuff like this possible, but this may still may be some time into the future,,,,

@acid_uk->edit() :-p

Well. i already have some ideas on this, like making a train reserve 2 blocks a head in some cases (looking ahead), or 'locking' a 2-way signal into a 1-way one, temporarily.
But, before i implement this, regular pbs needs to work near perfectly, i think. One step at a time, you know

So, just be patient :-p

Hazelrah · Post by **Hazelrah** » 15 Apr 2005 02:43

Actually, I think that it would be nice to have a series of wiki pages (basically a new category) for any patch under development that has yet to make it into the nightly builds. For instance, your Signal Copy feature could use a wiki page. I agree with you very much that the main discussion should be in the forums or even IRC. Basically I was thinking the same as you. A simple description, maybe a couple of pictures, name of the developer, and a link to the post in the forums.

While I'm not new to the concept of wiki's, I haven't done too much editing besides adding a bit of information to an already existing page, or some small grammar editing. Basically I wouldn't have the guts to create a whole new category on my own .

Hmm, looking at the wiki, maybe this kind of thing would go under Development:Main_page Subprojects Or create a new subheading called "Experimental Patches" or something like that. Anyways, I'd be willing to set it all up myself as long as somebody with a little bit more authority than me says "go for it!"

-Hazelrah

therax · Post by **therax** » 17 Apr 2005 04:23

First, let me say that I love PBS. It's completely rekindled my interest in OTTD. Now I can actually have the illusion of intelligent dispatchers controlling the signals on my network!

Now, here's a saved game where PBS appears to be acting strangely. (This saved game uses dbsetw.grf and no other newgrfs.)

Look at the segment between the entrance to München Woods and the depot near the junction to the west. A train is entering the depot via a PBS block, and another train is approaching soon from the northeast, passing through the PBS-controlled entrance to München Woods.

As the second train reaches the exit to its PBS block, it stops at that semaphore. I would expect to continue on out to the next block, through the standard signal, and wait at the entrance to the PBS junction block. The semaphore at the exit is up, and the following signal is green (Pic 2). This is the first oddity.

After the western train finishes entering the depot, the eastern train starts moving. But now it has reserved a long stretch of track from its current position all the way to the depot, even though the two signal blocks separating the two junctions are not PBS blocks (Pic 1)!

Finally, despite having reserved track all the way into the depot, the eastern train now halts at the entrance to the western PBS block, apparently waiting for the reserved tracks to clear (that it reserved itself just previously). This locks up the westbound track here forever.

Goldwyn · Post by **Goldwyn** » 17 Apr 2005 04:51

hey therax, I tried your saved game, when I placed another signal before the problem track, it did not reserve any tracks. I also removed and replaced the signal in your original spot and it also did not show that problem.

But loading it the first time and waiting, I ran into your problem. I guess you could try the temporary solution for now.

(Oh, was wondering which version of pbs are you using?)

Hazelrah · Post by **Hazelrah** » 17 Apr 2005 07:44

therax,

You have a depot inside of a PBS block, which I believe is still a big no no. This was happening to me a　couple of days ago and that was exactly my problem. For me, it didn't mater how many normal signals or other PBS blocks I put between one PBS block and another, if the trains were aiming for the depot, it would try to reserve all the track to the depot. Then it would stop at the intermediate PBS block. I think I was using an older version because I just upgraded this morning, but I had to be very careful when removing that depot. The game became very unstable. I believe that depots need to be seperated from PBS blocks by at least one signal.

-Hazelrah

Hackykid · Post by **Hackykid** » 17 Apr 2005 10:24

@hazelrah
Actually, since v063, depots inside pbs blocks should work....

@Goldwyn
Hmm, removing and placing the signal again did not help for me, neither did placing extra signals...

@therax
Thanks for the savegame/screenshots, was very helpfull.

So........, in any case:
New pbs version (v066) solves this bug

Hackykid · Post by **Hackykid** » 22 Apr 2005 11:27

Yay! New pbs version

(v067)

In this version, reversing inside pbs blocks should work a bit better. (cause less crashes)
Lemme know how this works out.

Also, the bug where building a road on a track would reset the reserved status. has been solved. (also, no more gfx glitches on level crossings :-p)

Abraxa · Post by **Abraxa** » 23 Apr 2005 01:40

Just wanted to drop by and say thanks to Hacky cause I love the effort he puts into this patch and also because I'm sure it makes the oTTD developers very happy to see that people contribute such major patches, too.
Good job!

-Abraxa

ConductorBob · Post by **ConductorBob** » 23 Apr 2005 01:45

Yeah, I love your stuff man. But you made the latest release for r2222, but I only see r2221...

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 23 Apr 2005 04:54

TortiseSVN tells me that r2222 is available on the SVN server.
Tonight's Windows nightly will probably be r2222, assuming it appears. (MacOS and Linux nightlies have already appeared.)

fire87 · Post by **fire87** » 23 Apr 2005 12:11

How do I use PBS here?
As in: How can I get it to work? I downloaded the win-thing, and just copy-pasted it in the OTTD folder, but still it doesn't work..

0beron · Post by **0beron** » 23 Apr 2005 12:42

You need the source from the SVN repository, apply the patch file for PBS, and then compile the game to run it.

fire87 · Post by **fire87** » 23 Apr 2005 12:56

Hmm.. Then I'll rather wait 'till it get implemented..

Goldwyn · Post by **Goldwyn** » 23 Apr 2005 15:56

If you got the build file, you just need to unzip both, and copy it over your existing files. Then you need to turn on npf. For now, to distinquish a PBS block you must use semiphores (ctrl + click when placing signals). Then you just have fun with trains playing chicken.

ConductorBob · Post by **ConductorBob** » 23 Apr 2005 19:53

I dunno if this has been stated but I'm having a problem around my stations on double tracks when a line begins to form.

Here's a pic... Second pic sorta explains.

GoneWacko · Post by **GoneWacko** » 23 Apr 2005 19:55

ConductorBob wrote:I dunno if this has been stated but I'm having a problem around my stations on double tracks when a line begins to form.

Here's a pic... Second pic sorta explains.

Comments weren't made to contain entire stories.

Please tell the problem in the post itself.

hYpe_ · Post by **hYpe_** » 23 Apr 2005 22:22

oops, solved

nevermind

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