Inefficiency with double truck stops

Got an idea for OpenTTD? Post it here!

Moderator: OpenTTD Developers

Post Reply
MrDowntempo
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 5
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 17:06

Inefficiency with double truck stops

Post by MrDowntempo »

I hadn't played in a while, but with the new update and OptenTTD showing up on steam, I figured it'd be a great time to start a new map! I generated a map which luckily put a farm and factory very near each other, so I decided to start with a cheaper road network to build up some bank before beginning with trains (which I usually use). I built 2 truck stops and a straight line of road, and then added a couple of grain trucks. Everything is going great. Then I added a couple of livestock trailers, but when setting orders, I found out, that the larger truck I chose isn't compatible with regular truck stops and needs inline ones. Firstly, I think that should be made clear when you're buying them, but no big deal, I can tack on an inline truck stop to each of my existing truck stops and the new trucks won't complain. I cloned the new truck a few times and sent them off. But then I noticed something. The grain trucks that didn't need the inline truck stop, started using the inline truck stop instead of driving through towards the back where the regular truck stop is. And this held up the livestock trucks behind it. If the grain truck drove through, they could both be loading at once! I propose some logic be added to allow trucks that don't need to use the inline truck stop to drive through and use the smaller truck stop when available.

Image
Arnoud
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 77
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 05:02
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Inefficiency with double truck stops

Post by Arnoud »

The original game ttd had only the terminus road stops, they were prone to jams and unsuitable for longer vehicles and so they were superseded by the drive through road stops in Opendttd.

The terminus stops are now only usefull in very rare situations, in allmost all cases it is better to build drive through stops only.
Your problem can be easily solved by building 2 stops not directly adjacent like in below screenshot.
Attachments
Drunningpool Transport, 17 Dec 2038.png
(184.92 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Coder for the 2cc trams (passenger) and the 2cc cargo trams
Michpi
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 30
Joined: 03 Feb 2021 18:51

Re: Inefficiency with double truck stops

Post by Michpi »

To me, your road layout looks completely wrong.
Your trucks must pass through the inline stop to get to the regular stop.
But why would they do that if they have already achieved their destination?
You can try to place regular stop before inline stop, beside the road.

But I strongly recommend that you use separate stops for different cargos.
Stops.jpg
Stops.jpg (44.73 KiB) Viewed 675 times
MrDowntempo
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 5
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 17:06

Re: Inefficiency with double truck stops

Post by MrDowntempo »

Michpi wrote: 02 Apr 2021 09:36 To me, your road layout looks completely wrong.
Your trucks must pass through the inline stop to get to the regular stop.
But why would they do that if they have already achieved their destination?
To allow more than one truck to load at once.
Michpi wrote: 02 Apr 2021 09:36 You can try to place regular stop before inline stop, beside the road.

But I strongly recommend that you use separate stops for different cargos.
Stops.jpg
I didn't feel the need for multiple stop, I just wanted a simple one stop to one stop setup. But that's all irrelevant to the point of this post. I'm not asking for suggestions on how to play better or differently, I'm pointing out a way in which the game could work better, if a player combines an inline and terminus stop into one.
MrDowntempo
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 5
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 17:06

Re: Inefficiency with double truck stops

Post by MrDowntempo »

Arnoud wrote: 02 Apr 2021 09:33 The original game ttd had only the terminus road stops, they were prone to jams and unsuitable for longer vehicles and so they were superseded by the drive through road stops in Opendttd.
I know, I started on Transport Tycoon even before deluxe. I guess that's why I tend to default to terminus stations, since inlines always felt like something added on later. But I also like the look of terminus stations at the end of a road better than a dead end road with an inline station on it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Arnoud wrote: 02 Apr 2021 09:33 The terminus stops are now only usefull in very rare situations, in allmost all cases it is better to build drive through stops only.
Your problem can be easily solved by building 2 stops not directly adjacent like in below screenshot.
As long as terminus stations are in the game, I believe the game should handle them correctly. The 'solution' shouldn't be to just never use them.
User avatar
kamnet
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7522
Joined: 28 Sep 2009 17:15
Location: Eastern KY
Contact:

Re: Inefficiency with double truck stops

Post by kamnet »

The game is handling them correctly. The road vehicle will always stop at the station tile that is closest and if it can fit. If you want those grain trucks to only go to the terminus station, then you need to make that station closer.
Eddi
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 7626
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 00:14

Re: Inefficiency with double truck stops

Post by Eddi »

MrDowntempo wrote: 02 Apr 2021 13:19I'm pointing out a way in which the game could work better
the thing is, it's almost impossible to make your station setup "work" that wouldn't break someone else's station setup
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)
User avatar
odisseus
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager
Posts: 226
Joined: 01 Nov 2017 21:19

Re: Inefficiency with double truck stops

Post by odisseus »

kamnet wrote: 02 Apr 2021 21:03 The road vehicle will always stop at the station tile that is closest and if it can fit.
That's not entirely true. If there is a continuous row of through stations, the vehicle will stop at the farthest platform in the row that it can reach. This allows any vehicles that arrive later to take the closer platforms.

However, once the vehicle stops at a platform, it stays at the same platform until it has finished loading or unloading. This means that if you have a vehicle waiting for a full load in the middle of a through station, the platforms ahead of it won't be used by other vehicles. In the worst case, this can bring the entire station into deadlock.
Half of the station is inaccessible.
Half of the station is inaccessible.
truck-through.png (35.97 KiB) Viewed 488 times
This brings us to the important advantage of the bay stations. Each bay can be accessed independently of other bays, no matter which ones are taken. To achieve the best results, the bays should be placed at roughly the same distance from the station entrance.
The loading trucks don't block each other.
The loading trucks don't block each other.
truck-bays.png (39.82 KiB) Viewed 488 times
User avatar
Pyoro
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2513
Joined: 17 Oct 2008 12:17
Location: Virgo Supercluster

Re: Inefficiency with double truck stops

Post by Pyoro »

RVs just don't get as much love as trains in OTTD (or basically any other transport manager; at least to my knowledge). That can lead to some weird situations. As it currently is you can make it work but if it's the best that can be ...
It's telling to me though that for example Transport Fever doesn't have a better solution either.

The way I see it you'd need traffic lights that'd allow you to do manage traffic around stations as with trains (to keep jams from traffic intersections and such). Also things like vehicles using both lanes in one-way streets and other restrictions, maybe.
LaChupacabra
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager
Posts: 216
Joined: 08 Nov 2019 23:54

Re: Inefficiency with double truck stops

Post by LaChupacabra »

Pyoro wrote: 03 Apr 2021 13:57 The way I see it you'd need traffic lights that'd allow you to do manage traffic around stations as with trains (to keep jams from traffic intersections and such). Also things like vehicles using both lanes in one-way streets and other restrictions, maybe.
Signaling would not improve anything, although it would certainly be interesting. :)

I was thinking, since pathfinder always sends a vehicle at the end of a long stop, maybe for short vehicles it could consider such a stop as the end?

It is not a problem for me, maybe I built something like that a few times, because it looks interesting, but I really expected the behavior where the vehicle stops in the bay at the end.
I am sorry for may English. I know is bed.
Post Reply

Return to “OpenTTD Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests