Chance of country going to war.

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Sirbalin
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Chance of country going to war.

Post by Sirbalin »

Chance of the country going to war. In the war, the government might pay you or other companies extra to ferry troops from military bases to other military bases and chance of bombing where there is a chance your infrastructure might get destroyed. Also, if the counry you are in loses then the economy suffers.
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by Hyronymus »

Sirbalin wrote: 12 Nov 2020 16:44 Chance of the country going to war. In the war, the government might pay you or other companies extra to ferry troops from military bases to other military bases and chance of bombing where there is a chance your infrastructure might get destroyed. Also, if the counry you are in loses then the economy suffers.
But there are no military bases in OpenTTD nor even a government.
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by Eddi »

according to the official Objectives of the project, the game should be free of any war themes
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by 2TallTyler »

Eddi wrote: 12 Nov 2020 19:23 according to the official Objectives of the project, the game should be free of any war themes
Disasters aside. :wink:

Adding military bases and other military industries and cargos would be easy. The actual effects of the war might be trickier. A gamescript could reward you for troop movements, but a quick scan of the gamescript API doesn't show any ability to create disasters or even control the economy (a recession would be the easiest way to simulate losing the war, as you describe it). I could certainly be missing gamescript features, though.
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by GarryG »

2TallTyler wrote: 12 Nov 2020 22:00 Adding military bases and other military industries and cargos would be easy.
That could make a new cargo and a chain of different Industries for the game. Passenger Vehicles would then have PASS (Passengers), TOUR (Tourists), and ARMY (Military).

If had Military bases, could deliver to these MAIL, PETR (petrol), BOOM (Explosives), VEHI (vehicles), BDMT (building Material), ENSP (engineer supplies), various FOOD products and be some other cargos as well. But what will they produce except more MAIL. Delivery of the other cargos should not produce ARMY or PASS.

So what will they produce? Can delivery of Passengers to be trained and these will create Military personal, but where do they get delivered too? Send them from one military base to another is about all you can do with them.
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by Auge »

Hello
GarryG wrote: 13 Nov 2020 02:02 If had Military bases, could deliver to these MAIL, PETR (petrol), BOOM (Explosives), VEHI (vehicles), BDMT (building Material), ENSP (engineer supplies), various FOOD products and be some other cargos as well. But what will they produce except more MAIL.
You forgot DEAD. That's the main output of and during wars. The whole concept is against all the game IMHO stands for. I would never ever touch it with only the tip of my fingers.
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by GarryG »

Auge wrote: 13 Nov 2020 09:56 You forgot DEAD. That's the main output of and during wars.
True .. besides any one want a game where you build and have battles try Civilization, Age Of Empires and games like that.

OpenTTD is a game where all countries are at peace.
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by Eddi »

Imagine there's no countries...
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by odisseus »

I agree with the development team that military themes are best left outside OpenTTD. The reasons have been discussed many times, so I won't reiterate them here.

There seems to be some interest in a game that would combine the OpenTTD style of transport management with conflict and destruction. However, all suggestions so far have amounted just to new sets of industries.

With that in mind, let me present the concept of an entirely new game... Military Transport Tycoon General.

The player will be in charge of supply lines delivering passengers and cargo to the military bases and supply depots in the rear, as well as directly to the front lines. This includes military personnel rotating in and out of the battlefield, machines such as field guns and tanks, supplies such as food, fuel and different kids of ammunition, and, of course, wounded and dead soldiers which have to be delivered to field hospitals and military cemeteries.

This aspect of warfare is usually overlooked by strategy games in favour of focusing on the combat itself. Assumptions are commonly made that guns have infinite ammo, engines have infinite fuel, a wounded soldier will fight just as efficiently as a healthy one, and so on. My proposal is focusing on military logistics instead, and relinquishing direct control of the troops to the AI. The player won't be able to choose where and how to conduct battles, but by sufficient and timely supply he would be able to influence their outcome. A larger army can lose to a smaller one, if it isn't supplied well enough. When this happens, the player can lose part of the friendly territory, along with any stockpiles and supply lines located on it. Conversely, if the AI manages to capture some of the enemy's territory, the player will get to manage any captured bases and transport.

The game will feature technologies from the time of First World War, as this war was marked by front lines that were mostly static but consumed insane amounts of men and resources. Additionally, this time was the heyday of steam railways, with horse and cart failing to meet the requirements of the day, and the automobile still in its early days. There was even such a thing as trench railways.

The economy system will have to be rethought, as the objectives and rewards of military logistics have nothing to do with profit. Perhaps the player would be promoted in military rank for successful completion of transport objectives. Each successive rank would increase the monthly allowance for expanding and repairing the transport network, but the scale of objectives would increase as well. The player could lose the game by failing a number of objectives or losing all territory.

Contrary to OpenTTD, the game will not have an "idle" phase in which the player can just sit back and watch his system work, as the delivery targets would shift from time to time (the closer to the front line, the more frequent these shifts would be). Disaster events, such as artillery shelling, would happen quite often, so the player will have to repair existing routes all the time.

Unfortunately, I have neither time nor skills to develop these ideas into an actual game. If you like my ideas, feel free to adopt and amend them.
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by GarryG »

odisseus wrote: 16 Nov 2020 02:43 With that in mind, let me present the concept of an entirely new game... Military Transport Tycoon General.
That could make a interesting game with mixture of OpenTTD and some think like Age Of Empires or Civilization ideas wrapped up together.
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by Redirect Left »

In theory that could be done on top of OpenTTD, with lots of edits and new graphics / methods of spawning and handling routes and changing the city generation to battlefront altering.

The question is, given the OTTD devs disapproval of children being faced with the horrors of real life and how the world actually works, would they permit the code to be reused on a theme slightly more geared towards warfare, even if its just transport orientated without any 'battles' or blood being on show.
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by odisseus »

https://www.openttd.org/about.html wrote: OpenTTD is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2.0.
The development team cannot forbid re-using their work in any manner whatsoever, as long as it doesn't violate the GPL. They cannot even forbid creating any additional content such as military-themed NewGRFs, though they may refuse to host it in the NewGRF repository.
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by kamnet »

odisseus wrote: 16 Nov 2020 02:43 The economy system will have to be rethought, as the objectives and rewards of military logistics have nothing to do with profit.
The military doesn't have anything to do with profit, but logistics are all about profits, especially when contracted out to private industry. The military industrial complex is almost as old as the industrial revolution itself. The focus isn't the war, it's the never-ending need to always be prepared for war.

Primary cargo is largely unchanged - mined minerals and chemicals extracted from the earth, water and lumber, crops/livestock/fibers. Secondary cargo is assembly of raw materials into fuels, ammunition, electronics, mechanical components, firearms, field supplies, fabrics, building materials, refined foods. Tertiary cargo includes finished assembly and delivery of rockets, vehicles, aircraft, packaged foods and goods for civilians, equipment and rations for troops. If you wanted, you could also convert civilians into soldiers, military officers, civilian staff/engineers/etc and scientists, all needing transport, as well as mail delivery.

Borrow the idea of ports from FIRS, and many of the finished products that you'd send off to war goes to a port, and in exchange you receive not only cash but other raw materials to furnish more production, possibly even engineering and manufacturing supplies to boost production of your primary industries to complete the production loops. A gamescript like BeeReward could focus on rewarding you for delivering a significant number of goods for a bonus. And multiple companies - both human and AI - can compete for subsidies.
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by odisseus »

You are describing the military sector of a peace-time economy. How is it different from FIRS with relabelled industries and an additional passenger type?
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Re: Chance of country going to war.

Post by LaChupacabra »

LaChupacabra wrote: (censored)"Apocalypse Industries Set" :twisted: (censored)
Didn't you like my idea? :) Ok, maybe I shouldn't post it. However, since there was a discussion about something as bad as the war in OTTD, I felt why not expand the idea to other ridiculous elements of the world of chaos and lawlessness? I knew the idea might be a little(?) too radical, but I also had no intention of censoring it and decorating blood with rose petals...

As I wrote, the whole idea was inspired by some imperfections of the game mechanics, especially the fact that you can take passengers wherever you want, and they never wait for their way back. The rest of the industry would only complement this element. More than once on different servers I saw players' ideas that many people could associate very badly, especially with the times of the Second World War. I myself once created a company and at the same time a station called "Slave Market" just for fun. It was one great station connecting many cities in a star layout. Such an interpretation is permitted and encouraged by the game mechanics. The idea called Apocalypse Industries Set was the result of anger at it and powerlessness (I couldn't change it) - why get angry when you can laugh? Such a set could be an interesting parody of game mechanics, devoid of infantile hypocrisy, but definitely more for adult people who can clearly distinguish good from evil than for children learning the world.

Regarding the war itself ...
NO, war is neither cool nor noble, although many of the wars have been unleashed under the cover of lofty ideas: "for the peace and well-being of the inhabitants" or "in the name of god". War can seem interesting when you are in a safe place, away from it (e.g. in Australia). The closer you get, the more it loses its "charm". There is appears a blood, rape, death, tearing suffering from the inside of people who have lost their loved ones, a soldier appears who cuts a woman's stomach to show her own, alive, unborn child in a mocking smile before her and her child agony (real situation from the documentary about the Second World War in Poland)... continue writing about the war or is it enough?
And your mission and your best interest would be to keep these wars alive...
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