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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Engineer
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Just add an option in the advanced options that makes planes unable to carry passengers. Optionally, it could increases the cargo capacity for other cargos and make planes travel at the 1/1 speeds in comparison to everything else to make them worth using with goods and other cargos that devalue quickly.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:59 pm 
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you could make a NewGRF for that.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:01 pm 
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Really, it's useless. Planes aren't really worth it when you have plane crashes enabled, not counting the fact that an airport; isn't always the best transportation solution. It can't have as much capacity as a big and well-managed station. An 16-track through-station (for an example) is better than an intercontinental airport because planes load and unload slower.

Also except if you're in multiplayer there is no reason to ban passenger aircraft. If you don't like seeing an AI doing tons of profit with a few airlines, normally you can configure the AI to not create aircraft. If really there is no option, remove the AI. If you're in multiplayer and hate seeing people doing tons of profit, talk to them about it. Don't create diagonal rails around an airport to prevent people from making it bigger - I once did it because I really was mad about people not deleting their airports, and blocking some of my railway plans, and I got insulted by the guy which had blocked airports because of me, and then I was banned by the admin for "Excessive autism".

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:27 am 
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acs121 wrote:
Really, it's useless. Planes aren't really worth it when you have plane crashes enabled, not counting the fact that an airport; isn't always the best transportation solution. It can't have as much capacity as a big and well-managed station. An 16-track through-station (for an example) is better than an intercontinental airport because planes load and unload slower.

Certainly. But they are a great way to get started and your money in order to build up the much more expensive rail infrastructure

@JustMoreMemes: You could simply forbid planes altogether by setting their allowed number to 0. Or make a NewGRF which disallows planes carrrying passengers.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:05 am 
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I've generally found aviation unaffordable because of airport maintenance,and have watched AIs foolish enough to enter that market promptly go from leadership positions to bankruptcy.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:50 am 
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Baldy's Boss wrote:
I've generally found aviation unaffordable because of airport maintenance,and have watched AIs foolish enough to enter that market promptly go from leadership positions to bankruptcy.

This, play with infrastructure costs enabled, then running an airline operation becomes really expensive, easily offsetting the profits.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Baldy's Boss wrote:
I've generally found aviation unaffordable because of airport maintenance,and have watched AIs foolish enough to enter that market promptly go from leadership positions to bankruptcy.

AIs huh... I've seen countless players doing that on our servers :D

But all in all planes are very unbalanced. Only few players can outperform planes start with trains and that requires a good loco like sh125 so not possible on some climates and starting dates. What's even worse planes require no skill to use so every newbie can do just as good as a top player. On our new servers I ended up banning all large aircrafts with a server patch, that seems to balance them just fine as it allows new players to get some decent money but is still few times less than what trains can make. Btw, crashes do nothing for plane balance, they just add a bit of randomness.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:49 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
Really, it's useless. Planes aren't really worth it when you have plane crashes enabled, not counting the fact that an airport; isn't always the best transportation solution. It can't have as much capacity as a big and well-managed station. An 16-track through-station (for an example) is better than an intercontinental airport because planes load and unload slower.

Also except if you're in multiplayer there is no reason to ban passenger aircraft. If you don't like seeing an AI doing tons of profit with a few airlines, normally you can configure the AI to not create aircraft. If really there is no option, remove the AI. If you're in multiplayer and hate seeing people doing tons of profit, talk to them about it. Don't create diagonal rails around an airport to prevent people from making it bigger - I once did it because I really was mad about people not deleting their airports, and blocking some of my railway plans, and I got insulted by the guy which had blocked airports because of me, and then I was banned by the admin for "Excessive autism".


Wow, that admin sounds like a nasty person. What kind of server uses a real condition as a reason for being banned!?


Last edited by Dave on Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Language Timothy.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:29 pm 
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planetmaker wrote:
acs121 wrote:
Really, it's useless. Planes aren't really worth it when you have plane crashes enabled, not counting the fact that an airport; isn't always the best transportation solution. It can't have as much capacity as a big and well-managed station. An 16-track through-station (for an example) is better than an intercontinental airport because planes load and unload slower.

Certainly. But they are a great way to get started and your money in order to build up the much more expensive rail infrastructure

@JustMoreMemes: You could simply forbid planes altogether by setting their allowed number to 0. Or make a NewGRF which disallows planes carrrying passengers.


Yeah, setting their allowed number to 0... but apparently he wants to keep them for goods, etc.
I agree having a good plane service is a good financial help and it saved me from bankruptcy a number of times while in a recession. How great planes can be ?
To be honest, planes are good only for long distances, like more than 256 tiles, when you're getting profitable trains. The modern trains, especially maglevs, beat planes on short distances, because they are cheaper and have more capacity in general. But when it's about getting to a city at the other end, better keep your planes, they become more efficient, especially if you timetable them correctly.

Also JustMoreMemes, while I sure don't accept the behaviour of the admin of having banned me with this message, I can clearly understand why he did this (It was like 3 years ago, and they unbanned me since), as you just don't block somebody's infrastructure - I think it goes for any player.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Counter-measures against a competitor's aircraft are another topic.Girdling an airport with rails etc. is one tactic...but I wish that building slopes next to an airport made crashes more likely,or tall buildings around an airport made approaches more difficult.

But as I said,in my cost environment I've never seen a point in investing in that mode.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:26 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
planetmaker wrote:
acs121 wrote:
Really, it's useless. Planes aren't really worth it when you have plane crashes enabled, not counting the fact that an airport; isn't always the best transportation solution. It can't have as much capacity as a big and well-managed station. An 16-track through-station (for an example) is better than an intercontinental airport because planes load and unload slower.

Certainly. But they are a great way to get started and your money in order to build up the much more expensive rail infrastructure

@JustMoreMemes: You could simply forbid planes altogether by setting their allowed number to 0. Or make a NewGRF which disallows planes carrrying passengers.


Yeah, setting their allowed number to 0... but apparently he wants to keep them for goods, etc.
I agree having a good plane service is a good financial help and it saved me from bankruptcy a number of times while in a recession. How great planes can be ?
To be honest, planes are good only for long distances, like more than 256 tiles, when you're getting profitable trains. The modern trains, especially maglevs, beat planes on short distances, because they are cheaper and have more capacity in general. But when it's about getting to a city at the other end, better keep your planes, they become more efficient, especially if you timetable them correctly.

Also JustMoreMemes, while I sure don't accept the behavior of the admin of having banned me with this message, I can clearly understand why he did this (It was like 3 years ago, and they unbanned me since), as you just don't block somebody's infrastructure - I think it goes for any player.


Well I just tried planes with infrastructure maintenance and wow! It's hard to do now. So that problem is solved. Also, I don't think the admin banning you was bad, it was the "excessive autism" bit that offended me.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Baldy's Boss wrote:
Counter-measures against a competitor's aircraft are another topic.Girdling an airport with rails etc. is one tactic...but I wish that building slopes next to an airport made crashes more likely,or tall buildings around an airport made approaches more difficult.

But as I said,in my cost environment I've never seen a point in investing in that mode.


That's impossible for the buildings as the game can't figure out how tall is a building.
However, it could be possible for the slopes.

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North American Passenger Railroads
Not Enough Subways


My screenshots


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:41 am 
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acs121 wrote:
Baldy's Boss wrote:
Counter-measures against a competitor's aircraft are another topic.Girdling an airport with rails etc. is one tactic...but I wish that building slopes next to an airport made crashes more likely,or tall buildings around an airport made approaches more difficult.

But as I said,in my cost environment I've never seen a point in investing in that mode.


That's impossible for the buildings as the game can't figure out how tall is a building.
However, it could be possible for the slopes.


Well,it would be nice if buildings had more properties...some correlation between population and depicted mass.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Why not simply set the maximum number of aircraft allowed to a very low number?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:49 pm 
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Expresso wrote:
Why not simply set the maximum number of aircraft allowed to a very low number?


As said : he doesn't want to limit the aircraft number, but to only allow them carrying goods.
I guess when you are the only one playing you don't mind aircraft being able to carry passengers as long as they carry goods.
Even in multiplayer you can talk with people about the problem, etc.
I could only guess he's having a problem with an AI...

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Not Enough Subways


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:51 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
Even in multiplayer you can talk with people about the problem, etc.


You'd probably better off talking with a doctor about the problem. Like seriously, if that's a competitive mp why would anyone listen to you it's the whole point to use the best means of getting to the goal. And if it's not competitive money means nothing so you shouldn't care about it let alone bother someone else.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:01 pm 
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Erm, no. He can't force others to not use airplanes for passengers, sure. But his problem is, in this case, that people are using too much airplanes for passengers and that they aren't balanced against trains or ships.

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Not Enough Subways


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:32 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
But his problem is, in this case, that people are using too much airplanes for passengers and that they aren't balanced against trains or ships.


Well, sure, it's a valid problem, I'm not arguing that. But that's essentially a problem for a server admins to solve. So I don't get who are you suggesting to talk with. I guess you can talk to those admins but on any decent competitive server admins are well aware of that problem already.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:58 pm 
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What I mean is that he could talk about the problem to the companies themselves, so at least users can understand what he wants from them.

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North American Passenger Railroads
Not Enough Subways


My screenshots


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