More signals

[mike[F]]

Amber/double amber signals? Further to my TTDPatch suggestion which was shot down in flames..

Could amber signals be implemented? Meaning that the next signal along that track is red. This would allow for trains to run on dual two-way track better, as they could change track if the track they were on was going to be red at a later stage (i.e. they encounter an amber), but if the other track was red then they could carry on. Maybe even single/double amber. Would be nice to see.

[Korenn]

can't you do this with normal presignals already?

I don't see how this could improve train movement...

[mike[F]]

Very hard to explain why it would help train movement (I think it would, but I can't prove it!), but it would be a nice graphical feature if nothing else...

[kubek]

Hi there, this is my first post.

I must say I agree with mike.

You can see amber(yellow) lights in reaal world. When train approaches amber light it means on next signal there is red, and propably train should stop there. There also is limitation of speed; when light blinks it is 60 km/h if is constant it is 100 km/h (in Poland).

Adding yellow signal would make OTTD more realistic, as train going 160-200 km/h in real world breaks for 1-2 km. This is because passengers would fall from seats if train stops in no-time.

In TTD train accelerates as in real, why slouldn't it have real feature for breaking.

All take care.

kubek

[Snorbuckle]

I believe the status of a light will be governed by one bit. 0 or 1, no inbetween. Sorry.

[Bjarni]

You have no idea how hard it would be to make. If the signal is made, how should it tell the train, that it is allowed max 60?
If you set the speed to 60, it will accelrate right away
Besides 60 is A LOT in 1950 and not very much in 2020. How should OTTD handle that?

However, I can see the useful in this. A train can go to harf speed and avoid stopping(hpoefully) This is important if the train is heavy loaded and therefore accelrates very slowly

[ChrisCF]

Use of a byte value for signalling might be worthwhile - it stores how many blocks in front are clear (or something), and you base the signalling profile on that, e.g. 0 = on, 1 = caution, 2 = off; or 0 = on, 1 = caution, 2 = caution ahead, 3 = off. You might use proportions of the train's speed as limits, rather than specific speeds, since a longer train at lower speed may take as long to stop as a shorter, lighter train at higher speed.

[Jakal]

I would also suggest another presignal type, as explained by me here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=5974

[krtaylor]

Here's how this works. Originally this was my idea, it was my first post in the forums.

You have amber signals on one-way signals only, when the next signal further along is also a one way signal (and in the same direction, obviously.) So here's the track:

--->

====S1============S2=============S3========

where the S's are the signals, and they are one way in the direction from left to right.

Here's how it works now:

====SG1===========SR2===[xxxxxx]>==SG3=======

If another train comes along, faster than the train between signals 2 and 3, it will go full-speed right up to signal 2 and then come to a screeching halt. What would be better is if signal 1 were yellow, like so:

====SY1===========SR2===[xxxxxx]>==SG3=======

That way, a train going through signal 1 would not stop, but would slow down to 1/2 of its maximum speed, whatever that is. That's easily calculated. It would remain at that maximum speed until it arrived at a full-green signal.

This system would make for smoother and more realistic traffic flow.

[Snorbuckle]

That sounds great. I hope it's possible.

[kubek]

One again in graphical form

This drawing should explain the problem to those, who still wonder, what we are talking about.

Maybe it is a good idea not to store limit speed as fixed value, but to half maximum speed.

[Bjarni]

I understood the idea before the screenshot, but that doesn't make it any easier to program
One way of making this is to make a var in the train, that says if it have passed a yellow signal. If it have, max speed= max speed / 2
This var is then set each time the train passes a signal

So the main problem remains....... making the signal. It is still really hard to do

A note about your screenshot, real life signals of that type have 4 lights. From top to buttom:
Green (next signal is green)
Yellow (speed reduction)
Red (stop)
Green (this signal is green)

Since the top light is visible from the farest distance, it shows "full speed" on/off
the yellow is the next one, which shows if speed have to be reduced
The buttom red and green shows if reduce speed is lower speed or stop
This way, a signal of this type can't give just red, it will give yellow and red at the same time

[mike[F]]

Hmm I think in England we have:-

Red
Yellow
Yellow
Green

Red = stop
Double yellow = next signal is red
Yellow = next signal is double yellow
Green = go

I *think*.

[Snorbuckle]

Hmm I think in England we have:-

Red
Yellow
Yellow
Green

Red = stop
Double yellow = next signal is red
Yellow = next signal is double yellow
Green = go

I *think*.

I think I might walk down the the traintracks later on and check for you.

[Bjarni]

If everybody wants to implement the signal from their home country, we can't agree on anything. Either we make a whole lot of graphics or some "OTTD signal design" is agreed on. That design don't have to be one from any country, but the road traffic light just looks really wrong in my eyes

Of cause I want the Danish signal system if I was 100% in charge because it's the ones I know

To make the list from before complete, it's possible to have one green and no yellow. That means that the train is allowed full speed, but the next signal might be red, so this is the standard signal in OTTD.

[ChrisCF]

If you can manage to pull the signals out of the main graphics file, then everyone can have their own looks for signals. UK signals are:

Two lights - green red
Three lights - green yellow red
Four lights - yellow2 green yellow1 red

[Bjarni]

If you can manage to pull the signals out of the main graphics file, then everyone can have their own looks for signals. UK signals are:

Two lights - green red
Three lights - green yellow red
Four lights - yellow2 green yellow1 red

We need to know how the future graphic format are before we starts to make A LOT of new graphics

Besides that was a few English signals. Are you sure, that you didn't miss any?

[ChrisCF]

If you want to get picky, then you have semaphores of two types whose arms either raise or drop when the signal goes off, and the dwarf signals for shunting movements, and the complication of splitting distants and flashing yellows, but other than that ...

I think a 4 aspects (on, caution, advance caution, off) will suffice as a maximum for most situations

[Bjarni]

If you want to get picky, then you have semaphores of two types whose arms either raise or drop when the signal goes off, and the dwarf signals for shunting movements, and the complication of splitting distants and flashing yellows, but other than that ...

I think a 4 aspects (on, caution, advance caution, off) will suffice as a maximum for most situations

I didn't want to be picky (but I can see how you could read it like I would), I just wondered if the English system is A LOT simpler than ours. However you wrote an interesting idea: flashing signals
I guess the new graphic engine should not only abandon 8 bit graphics, but also make flashing lights easy to make, so people can make local graphics for signals, road/rail crossings etc. very easy

[mnorman]

Basically the British system is one of the simplest in the world (especially when compare with the amercan system), but when the signal is at a go option (no light in one-aspect sgnals, gree or some number of yellows if they are present) there are also route indicators (which at simple junction are just a diagonal series of lights in the direction of the diverging route, but in more complex situations are a light array that shows an appropriate letter or number for the selected route.