Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

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Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by bjornthv » 21 Dec 2012 20:33

Greetings,

I know there is a topic for underground signals, so please don't burn me down to my socks immidiately, but give me a chance to explain...

I used to play "Locomotion" a similar game in every sense of the word, exept for one crucial "little" difference; one could build almost anything below ground that one could build above it.
Ofcourse an underground airport wouldn't make any sense (Would be hilarious though), but one could use this i.e. to create an underground METRO in a huge metropolis instead of using trams or busses.
Using rails, maglev, monorails or even vacuumtrains underground would IMHO make gameplay a lot more "multidimensional" as one could, as we do in Real Life, build stations underground in large metropolitan areas.

Ofcourse this would come at a cost, but this would really, really make the whole game much more fun. And don't get me wrong, it's fun already, but it would (IMHO) just bring it to the next level, quite literally.

I did search for patches, and yes, I have found some attempts to do this, but nothing even came close to a proper working, well, something if anything at all.

I'd love to hear if this is a future plan or that it's not possible at all.

And yes, I know similar suggestions have been made for (parts of) this idea, but none seemed to have put 1 and 1 together... Unless I missed something.

Anyway, I hope I have brought an idea to OpenTTD...

Keep up the good work! Love it!

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by Jacko » 21 Dec 2012 20:53

if you had been searching carefully you would know this has been suggested several times
the answer is simple, it requires too much of a recode/remake blah blah etc.
try it yourself, see where you get.
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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by bjornthv » 21 Dec 2012 20:58

I don't pretend to be a coder, I merely tried to combine several ideas I had found into a more, well, comprehensable, and maybe an even more, well, doable package.

Don't get me wrong, here, as I'm an idiot when it comes to making/programming games, but making them changes/add-ons individually would be more trouble then to, well, incorporate the whole deal?

Aw, well, if it's not possible then it's not possible, but it would have been awsome.

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by FLHerne » 21 Dec 2012 23:11

bjornthv wrote:Aw, well, if it's not possible then it's not possible, but it would have been awsome.
It's *possible* - anything's possible in an open-source game, even if it means rewriting the whole thing from scratch - but it would require days or weeks of work by someone who already knew about the insides of OpenTTD in detail. The devs just don't have that much free time (they're not paid to work on it :( ), and if they did there are probably many other things that could be done :D .
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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by Lord Aro » 21 Dec 2012 23:17

I believe it is somewhat planned, but it would require a new map array and while several people have had a go (see http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/newmap.git for 1 example) none have been finished to the extent that they have been implemented

... Yet :)
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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by Michi_cc » 21 Dec 2012 23:37

I still wouldn't expect a million underground layers with freeform, smooth curves and variable slopes. This is OpenTTD and not OpenLocomotion after all.

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by Supercheese » 22 Dec 2012 00:20

I, too, would like underground capabilities, but I took the "easy" (read: hackish) way out and just made "fake" subways that are really road vehicles. A fairly close implementation of "all-underground" subways working within current OTTD restrictions, but with a few drawbacks.
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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by bjornthv » 22 Dec 2012 00:39

Michi_cc wrote:I still wouldn't expect a million underground layers with freeform, smooth curves and variable slopes. This is OpenTTD and not OpenLocomotion after all.
I'm not suggesting something like OpenLocomotion, I'm merely pointing at the potential, and something that would be an asset to the game; After all in Real Life we use this subterranean "layer".
But yeah, I understand the arguments against it; Time is, after all, a precious commodity that developers (among others) don't have in abundance.
If I had that commodity in abundance I would definitely learn code and help a hand, but to each his own talents.

And please don't get me wrong, I love the game...

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by kamnet » 23 Dec 2012 01:40

Michi_cc wrote:I still wouldn't expect a million underground layers with freeform, smooth curves and variable slopes. This is OpenTTD and not OpenLocomotion after all.
And if we can find a way to do this, then that, too, would be OpenTTD.

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by Expresso » 23 Dec 2012 11:07

If I remember correctly, the biggest problem was a control interface. So, if you can come up with that in a way which is consistent with the rest of openttd and it doesn't hamper game play, the devs can actually implement it.

No new map array is needed; there's just a need for a mechanism to keep track of multiple tiles stacked on top of each other. Quite a difference, don't you think?

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by Lord Aro » 23 Dec 2012 23:29

Expresso wrote:...No new map array is needed; there's just a need for a mechanism to keep track of multiple tiles stacked on top of each other....
I'm no expert on this, but i think you just contradicted yourself... ;)
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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by YNM » 24 Dec 2012 01:18

My answer would be : Its not impossible, its only takes a longer time... to rewrite the code from scratch, maybe.
TBH, OpenTTD maps is likely not a 3D one, so its not possible to have multilayered things and such. Even bridges can't be built under another bridge, which imply that bridge and tunnels are just a "warp" in path - transporting something from a special block to another special block that is straight.

Aanyway, if you wanting somebody to try it, theres already one : [urlhttp://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1056091#p1056091[/url]
I believe if he suceed, it can be extended to variable tunnels too - endless possibilities !
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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by kingrein » 12 Feb 2013 14:43

would it be an idea to make it possible to build a tunnel with a corner, just like bridges selecting te area you want, and then press a specific button to make a corner.
Maybe you should try something else, or at least, think in a different way. like someone with autism, it could be usefull.

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by Jacko » 12 Feb 2013 16:50

unfortunately you can't do that either, due to similar problems...
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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by kingrein » 12 Feb 2013 17:04

hmm, that's a shame
Maybe you should try something else, or at least, think in a different way. like someone with autism, it could be usefull.

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by DC-1 » 05 Apr 2013 23:45

I found a working REAL underground solution in russian openttd forum.
http://forums.ttdrussia.net/viewtopic.p ... 53834dd521

It's a fully working patch on version 1.2.3, and you get 3 levels underground! There's a new special station which connects all levels.

(I couldn't port it to the new 1.3.0 :( )
Attachments
ottdunderground.png
screenshot from the author.
(Don't afraid, the patch speaks english! ;)
(2.69 MiB) Downloaded 4 times

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by bjornthv » 08 Apr 2013 06:51

ipsirc wrote:I couldn't port it to the new 1.3.0 :(
Maybe the dev can? Would be awsome... As this is starting to look like the thing we all wished for, with both signals, curved tracks and connections with the above world...

I don't speak Russian, so a badly (google) translated e-mail might not get the message across, but I think it's clear that it CAN be done after all.

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by SquireJames » 08 Apr 2013 07:19

Looks like two separate screenshots to me. I remain to be convinced.

EDIT: Or should I say, an additional viewport taking a screenshot of somewhere else on the map
Image

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by DC-1 » 08 Apr 2013 09:33

SquireJames wrote:Looks like two separate screenshots to me. I remain to be convinced.

EDIT: Or should I say, an additional viewport taking a screenshot of somewhere else on the map
I compiled & tried it myself. Here's a screenshot: Ikarus 263 at underground and Ikarus 396 on the surface. There are 3 stations, which are connected between levels. Okie, the 1x1 station grf is so ugly, but it's fully working.

Image

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Re: Underground Stations/Switches/Signals

Post by Jacko » 08 Apr 2013 09:58

that looks awesome
if someone could get it in English lol
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All comments from me may or may not be true and do not take them word-for-word

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