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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:16 pm 
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Engineer
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OM MY CHUCK, TrueBrain!! :shock: How did you even manage to do that?! Is it patch? Is it a NewGRF? Please somebody tell me! How do you make diagonal roads?!


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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:57 pm 
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CazadorSirenas wrote:
OM MY CHUCK, TrueBrain!! :shock: How did you even manage to do that?! Is it patch? Is it a NewGRF? Please somebody tell me! How do you make diagonal roads?!

Is the last post from 6 and a half years ago? Don't dig up old dead topics.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:09 pm 
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There's no real problem about doing that, there's no such rule in the forum that disallows posting in a very old topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:07 pm 
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TrueBrain wrote:
Nothing that can't be solved:

Image

You picture gives me a stupid idea.

Why not leaving the entire road code, and create a new rail type "road" ?

This would :
1/ Refactor "rail/road" code into one
2/ Answer most of the questions "should diagonals share different types, etc."

There should then have "only" 3 problems :
1/ Manage rail crossing (graphic and way to work)
2/ Disable trafic lights for this rail type
3/ Graphics*

IMHO graphics isn't the biggest matter : for newgrf that doesn't handle the desired graphic, the standard one could be used. It's not very nice, but this would at least work.

I don't say it could be easy, but I guess this approach could be "easier" to do (all path finding, draw on diagonal tracks, etc. is already done).

And this approach should make the articulated road vehicles easier to design (especially for modern trams with 4 or more uints that are as long as a suburb train)


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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:22 pm 
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Only 3 problems eh?

Did you consider
- how to make a bi-directional road at a single tile
- while at it, a double uni-directional road (would be an extension from the current functionality), and
- how to overtake a road vehicle?

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:41 pm 
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Hmmm, as I said, the idea was certainly stupid :D


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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:12 pm 
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A solution would be to recode rails so they take up one half-tile (so you can either have 1 on a single tile in the middle or have 2 in a tile). It would also eventually allow compatilibility with tramways, so welcome street-running etc.
It wouldn't break savegames as well (original-behaviour rails would be treated as 1 track in a single tile in the middle).
Then have road use its default behavior, but implementing diagonal roads and so. This would have tramways using most of rail code and keeping the road behaviour.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:19 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
It wouldn't break savegames
excuse my blatantness, but i don't think you have enough understanding of how this works internally to make that judgement.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:03 pm 
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Let's say, we could make it not break savegames.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:37 pm 
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MagicBuzz wrote:
You picture gives me a stupid idea.

Why not leaving the entire road code, and create a new rail type "road" ?

Your stupid idea gives me a more stupid idea... and I'm both ashamed and scared to try it (because it might even work) but it would need too much work for a single (lazy) person.
Not considering it WILL break backward compatibility, WILL need a lot of state machine changes, but COULD bring a lot of nice new features (like 2 independent road lanes on the same tile, where you can even build one and let the spare space for... tram?)

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Custom roads ? I'd love it personally.
What i'd really love is interconnexion between trains and tramways... but i don't know how this could be possible although that's part of the dreams i have.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:25 pm 
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acs121 wrote:
Custom roads ? I'd love it personally.
What i'd really love is interconnexion between trains and tramways... but i don't know how this could be possible although that's part of the dreams i have.

Like the Rhône Express at between Lyon Part Dieu train station and Lyon Saint Exupéry Airport ? https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhônexpress


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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Yes, i know what is Rhônexpress, so that would be it.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:14 am 
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There's nothing stopping anybody from creating a tram set that runs on railtypes, or from creating a rail set that runs on tramtypes. And it seems entirely possible that somebody might do so with NRT.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:33 am 
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I think you didn't get what i meant.
There are a ton of street-running railways in the US (and as a US resident you must know it), as well as in Europe you have a lot of tram-trains, especially in Germany, although there's a few in France too. What i mean is that both of these cannot be done in normal OpenTTD, even patched. There's not Newstops yet, so we cannot have specific platforms instead of a bare tram stop.
I did want to recode 2cc Trams as rail vehicles instead of tramways, but this still isn't the wanted objective : while tramways help save a lot of space by being able to run on roads, rail cannot go on roads and needs lots of space for implementation, and even crossing your roads it crushes down and blocks your road vehicles.

The searched objective is not tram-trains, as it is almost useless, you just have to make a tram set with high-speed trams and make them totally segregated with roads along perfect timetabling. It is rather train-trams, which have the contrary approach, and would be a real transportation solution by both helping save space in cities and rather costless to build as you can use the already-built rail infrastructure.

In the same way you could have railways running on-street.

A solution would be to have graphical standard-gauge tram-tracks and add in the GUI a connector piece, with two choices : either two tramtracks on one tile becoming two rail tracks on two tiles, either two tramtracks on one tile becoming one rail track on one tile.
Trains rolling on tramtracks would have a road vehicle behaviour, not crushing any vehicle or so, while tramway rolling on normal rails would have a train behaviour, respecting signals etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:21 am 
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Make a decision on which type works better for you - railtype or tramtype, and then work from there.

Tramtype pros: you gain compactness and dual carriageways, no need to worry about signaling.
Tramtype cons: you lose signaling and the ability to create stations without using Objects.
Tracktype pros: everything about trains, just create new station sets and a new tracktype with a road surface
Tracktype cons: requires more space

If neither work for you, then you're going to have to independently develop a third option which satisfies what you want and respects the backwards compatibility with Transport Tycoon Deluxe, or break with it all and entirely fork OpenTTD into a new independent project that has no dependency or respect for TTD.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:56 am 
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Well, you could explain to me in what addition without true modification would break savegames.
Although NRT does crash non-NRT savegames, i'm sure it will be solved by then.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Engineer
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Nobody has yet told me where to get or download this patch for diagonal roads... Is it even online anymore? :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:40 pm 
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There's no such thing as a patch for diagonal roads. A few were made for diagonal crrosings (diagonal rails crossing roads) but not much else.

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 Post subject: Re: Diagonal roads!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:45 pm 
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¿? Really? :( But then how is the picture above possible? I don't think that's photoshoped.


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