Diagonal roads!

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CazadorSirenas
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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by CazadorSirenas » 13 Aug 2018 15:16

OM MY CHUCK, TrueBrain!! :shock: How did you even manage to do that?! Is it patch? Is it a NewGRF? Please somebody tell me! How do you make diagonal roads?!

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by Badger » 13 Aug 2018 17:57

CazadorSirenas wrote:OM MY CHUCK, TrueBrain!! :shock: How did you even manage to do that?! Is it patch? Is it a NewGRF? Please somebody tell me! How do you make diagonal roads?!
Is the last post from 6 and a half years ago? Don't dig up old dead topics.
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acs121
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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by acs121 » 13 Aug 2018 18:09

There's no real problem about doing that, there's no such rule in the forum that disallows posting in a very old topic.

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by MagicBuzz » 20 Aug 2018 15:07

TrueBrain wrote:Nothing that can't be solved:

Image
You picture gives me a stupid idea.

Why not leaving the entire road code, and create a new rail type "road" ?

This would :
1/ Refactor "rail/road" code into one
2/ Answer most of the questions "should diagonals share different types, etc."

There should then have "only" 3 problems :
1/ Manage rail crossing (graphic and way to work)
2/ Disable trafic lights for this rail type
3/ Graphics*

IMHO graphics isn't the biggest matter : for newgrf that doesn't handle the desired graphic, the standard one could be used. It's not very nice, but this would at least work.

I don't say it could be easy, but I guess this approach could be "easier" to do (all path finding, draw on diagonal tracks, etc. is already done).

And this approach should make the articulated road vehicles easier to design (especially for modern trams with 4 or more uints that are as long as a suburb train)

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by Alberth » 20 Aug 2018 15:22

Only 3 problems eh?

Did you consider
- how to make a bi-directional road at a single tile
- while at it, a double uni-directional road (would be an extension from the current functionality), and
- how to overtake a road vehicle?
Being a OpenTTD developer does not mean I know what I am doing.
Also, other OpenTTD developers may have different opinions.

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by MagicBuzz » 20 Aug 2018 16:41

Hmmm, as I said, the idea was certainly stupid :D

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acs121
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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by acs121 » 20 Aug 2018 17:12

A solution would be to recode rails so they take up one half-tile (so you can either have 1 on a single tile in the middle or have 2 in a tile). It would also eventually allow compatilibility with tramways, so welcome street-running etc.
It wouldn't break savegames as well (original-behaviour rails would be treated as 1 track in a single tile in the middle).
Then have road use its default behavior, but implementing diagonal roads and so. This would have tramways using most of rail code and keeping the road behaviour.

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by Eddi » 20 Aug 2018 21:19

acs121 wrote:It wouldn't break savegames
excuse my blatantness, but i don't think you have enough understanding of how this works internally to make that judgement.
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by acs121 » 20 Aug 2018 22:03

Let's say, we could make it not break savegames.

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by Wolf01 » 23 Aug 2018 14:37

MagicBuzz wrote:You picture gives me a stupid idea.

Why not leaving the entire road code, and create a new rail type "road" ?
Your stupid idea gives me a more stupid idea... and I'm both ashamed and scared to try it (because it might even work) but it would need too much work for a single (lazy) person.
Not considering it WILL break backward compatibility, WILL need a lot of state machine changes, but COULD bring a lot of nice new features (like 2 independent road lanes on the same tile, where you can even build one and let the spare space for... tram?)

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by acs121 » 23 Aug 2018 15:11

Custom roads ? I'd love it personally.
What i'd really love is interconnexion between trains and tramways... but i don't know how this could be possible although that's part of the dreams i have.

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by MagicBuzz » 24 Aug 2018 19:25

acs121 wrote:Custom roads ? I'd love it personally.
What i'd really love is interconnexion between trains and tramways... but i don't know how this could be possible although that's part of the dreams i have.
Like the Rhône Express at between Lyon Part Dieu train station and Lyon Saint Exupéry Airport ? https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhônexpress

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by acs121 » 24 Aug 2018 21:24

Yes, i know what is Rhônexpress, so that would be it.

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by kamnet » 25 Aug 2018 00:14

There's nothing stopping anybody from creating a tram set that runs on railtypes, or from creating a rail set that runs on tramtypes. And it seems entirely possible that somebody might do so with NRT.

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by acs121 » 25 Aug 2018 00:33

I think you didn't get what i meant.
There are a ton of street-running railways in the US (and as a US resident you must know it), as well as in Europe you have a lot of tram-trains, especially in Germany, although there's a few in France too. What i mean is that both of these cannot be done in normal OpenTTD, even patched. There's not Newstops yet, so we cannot have specific platforms instead of a bare tram stop.
I did want to recode 2cc Trams as rail vehicles instead of tramways, but this still isn't the wanted objective : while tramways help save a lot of space by being able to run on roads, rail cannot go on roads and needs lots of space for implementation, and even crossing your roads it crushes down and blocks your road vehicles.

The searched objective is not tram-trains, as it is almost useless, you just have to make a tram set with high-speed trams and make them totally segregated with roads along perfect timetabling. It is rather train-trams, which have the contrary approach, and would be a real transportation solution by both helping save space in cities and rather costless to build as you can use the already-built rail infrastructure.

In the same way you could have railways running on-street.

A solution would be to have graphical standard-gauge tram-tracks and add in the GUI a connector piece, with two choices : either two tramtracks on one tile becoming two rail tracks on two tiles, either two tramtracks on one tile becoming one rail track on one tile.
Trains rolling on tramtracks would have a road vehicle behaviour, not crushing any vehicle or so, while tramway rolling on normal rails would have a train behaviour, respecting signals etc.

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by kamnet » 25 Aug 2018 01:21

Make a decision on which type works better for you - railtype or tramtype, and then work from there.

Tramtype pros: you gain compactness and dual carriageways, no need to worry about signaling.
Tramtype cons: you lose signaling and the ability to create stations without using Objects.
Tracktype pros: everything about trains, just create new station sets and a new tracktype with a road surface
Tracktype cons: requires more space

If neither work for you, then you're going to have to independently develop a third option which satisfies what you want and respects the backwards compatibility with Transport Tycoon Deluxe, or break with it all and entirely fork OpenTTD into a new independent project that has no dependency or respect for TTD.

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by acs121 » 25 Aug 2018 01:56

Well, you could explain to me in what addition without true modification would break savegames.
Although NRT does crash non-NRT savegames, i'm sure it will be solved by then.

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by CazadorSirenas » 31 Aug 2018 21:07

Nobody has yet told me where to get or download this patch for diagonal roads... Is it even online anymore? :?:

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by acs121 » 31 Aug 2018 21:40

There's no such thing as a patch for diagonal roads. A few were made for diagonal crrosings (diagonal rails crossing roads) but not much else.

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Re: Diagonal roads!

Post by CazadorSirenas » 01 Sep 2018 18:45

¿? Really? :( But then how is the picture above possible? I don't think that's photoshoped.

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