Station inside tunnel?

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Station inside tunnel?

Post by kamnet » 29 Oct 2009 07:29

I know that there has been an unending debate on how to have underground rail networks that mirror above-ground rail networks. But has there been any consideration to the idea of just having an in-line station sit in a tunnel? I tried to search to see if this has ever been suggested, but I didn't find any prior suggestions or discussions on it.

I'm not sure how this codes out, but here is my basic idea:

1) Use the current road/tram/rail tunnel code and modify it
2) There must be a clean exit on both sides of the tunnel for it to be built, just like with existing tunnels.
3) The tunnel can only have one station in it
4) The station can only be built as an extension to a single above-ground station, and it must be within the maximum number of tiles to that station
5) You can join multiple in-tunnel stations next to each other, but they will all be attached to the first in-tunnel station. You cannot lay multiple in-tunnel stations attached to different above-ground stations.

If this is viable, then this would be a great way to expand the game play. Especially considering passenger air/rail stations, if you had a large airport in a city, you can have trains run under the airport and connect directly to the airport. Or you could build smaller bus/tram stations above ground, and then have an in-tunnel station underneath connect to it, with the tunnel under an entire city without disturbing the existing above-ground infrastructure.

The three problems that I do see are:
1) To be realistic, tunnels would have to be a max of 1 level below a station. No idea how that works out for 2+ levels below
2) Once you have a tunnel established in one direction, you cannot have another tunnel cross it, unless you enable the option to have underground tunnels cross
3) Very long tunnels are going to be expensive. As they should be. :-)

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by lawton27 » 29 Oct 2009 17:14

That's actually a rather possible idea, however these tunnels would need to be very expensive to stop them being took advantage of for giant station spreads, the length would need to be capped at the max station spread value, or even at a separate smaller value. Somebody might code this, but due to lack of interest so far I doubt it, even if it is i highly doubt trunk inclusion.

I congratulate you on using the search function and explaining the idea properly, if I could write patches I'd consider that one. :mrgreen:

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by CommanderZ » 29 Oct 2009 17:49

The problem is, that the game map array supports only one station tile per tile and Z-coordinate of the station tile is automatically calculated from the tile height. The requested feature would need rather major rehaul of the map array.

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by lawton27 » 29 Oct 2009 18:07

CommanderZ wrote:The problem is, that the game map array supports only one station tile per tile and Z-coordinate of the station tile is automatically calculated from the tile height. The requested feature would need rather major rehaul of the map array.
Surly only the entrance and exit would count as a station tile as a tunnel is a portal and nothing regarding it is stored on the tiles between.

(correct me if I'm wrong)

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by Eddi » 30 Oct 2009 01:57

that is correct, and with a little more semi-knowledge than shown here, none of the mentioned problems seem to be actual problems that one would face when trying to implement these suggestions. the most problems you'll probably have to face would be getting the trains to actually stop inside the wormhole, and with the exit tile being an elongated regular tile, calculating the platform length. the other stuff should be rather straight forward.

when you've come this far, you'll have to run the idea past a dev, which will have to weigh the pros and cons, since a feature like this could block future developments, like custom bridge heads or generally flexible bridges.

and could you explain what kind of effect you want to achieve with 4) and 5)?
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by boekabart » 30 Oct 2009 08:00

As I think it might indeed be technically possible (just like the recent signals-in-tunnels patch is apparently possible) by making one or both of the entrances station tiles (platform length == wormhole/tunnel length, stopping apparently is possible...) this, just like signals-in-tunnels, won't make it into trunk since it will be considered too much of a hack. This kind of stuff just isn't going to happen until there is some decent multi-info-per-tile possibility, I'm afraid...

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by kamnet » 30 Oct 2009 09:09

Eddi wrote:and could you explain what kind of effect you want to achieve with 4) and 5)?
kamnet wrote:4) The station can only be built as an extension to a single above-ground station, and it must be within the maximum number of tiles to that station
5) You can join multiple in-tunnel stations next to each other, but they will all be attached to the first in-tunnel station. You cannot lay multiple in-tunnel stations attached to different above-ground stations.
With 4): It makes no sense to have an underground-only station, it has to have some way to move passengers and goods from underground to the surface. There needs to be an existing above-ground station of any type that the underground station connects to.

With 5): If you have two underground station tunnels next to each other, it would have to be treated just like putting station tiles next to each other. You cannot have two separate stations next to each other, there has to be at least one tile separating the stations to have different stations, and thus you'd have to do the same thing with in-tunnel stations.
CommanderZ wrote:The problem is, that the game map array supports only one station tile per tile and Z-coordinate of the station tile is automatically calculated from the tile height. The requested feature would need rather major rehaul of the map array.
As it is now, you can have a station tile above-ground and a tunnel running underneath that station tile. Would it be possible to do the reverse? That is, have a station tile underneath the land, as long as there is not a station tile directly above it?

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by Eddi » 30 Oct 2009 13:49

kamnet wrote:You cannot have two separate stations next to each other, there has to be at least one tile separating the stations to have different stations
yes, you can, use the Ctrl key.
kamnet wrote:
CommanderZ wrote:The problem is, that the game map array supports only one station tile per tile and Z-coordinate of the station tile is automatically calculated from the tile height. The requested feature would need rather major rehaul of the map array.
As it is now, you can have a station tile above-ground and a tunnel running underneath that station tile. Would it be possible to do the reverse? That is, have a station tile underneath the land, as long as there is not a station tile directly above it?
like said, that is unlikely to be an issue at all, don't worry about it.
You might not exactly be interested in Ferion, but if you are, have fun :)

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by kamnet » 30 Oct 2009 23:01

Huh, so apparently you can have two separate stations next to each other. For some reason I seem to remember an error of "too close to an existing station" message popping up when I've tried that in the past.

Oh well. :-)

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by lawton27 » 30 Oct 2009 23:16

kamnet wrote:Huh, so apparently you can have two separate stations next to each other. For some reason I seem to remember an error of "too close to an existing station" message popping up when I've tried that in the past.

Oh well. :-)
In advanced settings turn join adjacent stations on. :wink:

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by matthew57778 » 28 Nov 2009 20:00

so is it possible to do it?
1. can you make turns in the tunnels?
2. what about signals?
3. stations in tunnels?

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by Gremnon » 28 Nov 2009 20:01

The second has already been done by patch, see the Development forum to find it.
As to the other two, I seriously doubt it.

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by petert » 28 Nov 2009 21:39

matthew57778 wrote: 1. can you make turns in the tunnels?

3. stations in tunnels?
If you haven't already read the topic, it's not possible.

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by Dexxter » 08 Dec 2009 21:33

Well that would mean you must:
code that you can only place 1 station on z axis = nonexistent as game only has x&y
The map to be layered in 3 layers (each layer having 2-3 levels = each with own height)
Then you could go on subdermal (or subaquatic) layer, ground level and high level (not sky but certainly mountains)

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by doener » 01 Sep 2010 10:37

i like the idea of having big underground stations under citys.
this would make something like underground tracks possible you just have to go up to the ground to make turns or signals.
even the city has more space to grow than, Nice for City Builder server...

But the station in tunnels should only accept passengers and mail or?

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by Gremnon » 01 Sep 2010 13:35

You shouldn't really be worried about the smaller details like that until you know you can get such underground stations.
If you care to code a patch that does just that, then maybe after it works without breaking anything else you can worry about the rest.

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by maquinista » 01 Sep 2010 18:59

doener wrote:i like the idea of having big underground stations under citys.
this would make something like underground tracks possible you just have to go up to the ground to make turns or signals.
even the city has more space to grow than, Nice for City Builder server...

But the station in tunnels should only accept passengers and mail or?
There are some station NewGRFs that build fake buildings over the station.
Sorry if my english is too poor, I want learn it, but it isn't too easy.[/list][/size]

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by SirkoZ » 01 Sep 2010 19:41

petert wrote:
matthew57778 wrote: 1. can you make turns in the tunnels?

3. stations in tunnels?
If you haven't already read the topic, it's not possible.
Until someone does it.

I just had to. ;-)

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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by DJ Nekkid » 03 Sep 2010 15:02

maquinista wrote:
doener wrote:i like the idea of having big underground stations under citys.
this would make something like underground tracks possible you just have to go up to the ground to make turns or signals.
even the city has more space to grow than, Nice for City Builder server...

But the station in tunnels should only accept passengers and mail or?
There are some station NewGRFs that build fake buildings over the station.
There is even a newgrf that place buildings on top of tracks :D
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Re: Station inside tunnel?

Post by Gremnon » 03 Sep 2010 15:23

NuTracks, specifically, which is probably about the closest it's possible to get.

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