speed limit also for wagons

hovering teacup · Post by **hovering teacup** » 23 Oct 2004 07:14

the title doesn't need more explanation.
its somewhat vital for a realistic gameplay.

ThorRune · Post by **ThorRune** » 23 Oct 2004 08:50

NO!

Ihated that in Simutrans, and i'll really HATE that here. Off course, go ahead, but mekie it a switch...

Darkvater · Post by **Darkvater** » 23 Oct 2004 12:24

Well it is in TTDPatch if I remember it correctly

. You obviously cannot have a coaltrain go 400km/h...that is just plain wrong.

Gorre · Post by **Gorre** » 23 Oct 2004 12:58

So, make player able to switch it on/off

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 24 Oct 2004 02:32

Darkvater wrote:Well it is in TTDPatch if I remember it correctly . You obviously cannot have a coaltrain go 400km/h...that is just plain wrong.

why would it be wrong?

the reason its wrong is in real life its not economical, perhaps if it were not economical in OTTD then it would change the gameplay naturally.

Alltaken

hovering teacup · Post by **hovering teacup** » 24 Oct 2004 05:33

if ottd 'd have realistic choice in strategy, then it would be like following;

-- the player can choose speed limit for each train within the loco's own speed limit
-- trains cause running cost depending on the speed and weight

so that passenger trains of 600 t can go at 200km/h conveniently, but if you do this with a freight hawler of 2000 t, it would cause you a deficit.

this would be also interesting, but on condition that running cost is more than decupled of TTD's default. I tried to *30 the running cost with the latest TTD Alter, and it still is too easy to earn money...

mbarashkov · Post by **mbarashkov** » 24 Oct 2004 08:31

Jh yes.
Cargo trains should be slow.
For expample, in Ukraine/Russia top average speed of cargo train is about 15-25 kph. And passenger trains go much faster, surely.
This way we will need express tracks or something like that to combine passenger and freight movement. It'll be definitely more interesting.

stewis · Post by **stewis** » 28 Oct 2004 15:02

i hate to admit it but thats the only thing i liked out of loco...

Prof. Frink · Post by **Prof. Frink** » 28 Oct 2004 15:08

Darkvater wrote:Well it is in TTDPatch if I remember it correctly . You obviously cannot have a coaltrain go 400km/h...that is just plain wrong.

Not that precisely.
TTDPatch has a switch 'Freighttrains' which makes freight n times heavier (n = 2..255, default 5), slowing trains down.
TTDPatch does not have any speed limits for wagins, so an empty coal train can still fly along.
(A full one can too... If it goes downhill

)

swiitsch · Post by **swiitsch** » 28 Oct 2004 16:00

Additionally the speed depends on the quality of the tracks. Maybe highspeed and normal tracks should be made. Also tracks should cost maintianance depending on ground prices (All of that has been descussed besfore...)

Celestar · Post by **Celestar** » 28 Oct 2004 22:29

I think it is a good idea, and should be implemented some day.

it also makes no sense to have a coal train running 500km/h. The coal doesn't pay your more because it arrives earlier.

Celestar

Pilatus · Post by **Pilatus** » 29 Oct 2004 13:14

As I'm against micromanagment in all games (only the geeks will stay and play) atleast make it so that the player can choice if he/she want's it or not...

swiitsch · Post by **swiitsch** » 29 Oct 2004 15:40

Micro management? I don't see that with speed limits on wagons.

Sionide · Post by **Sionide** » 29 Oct 2004 15:48

Pilatus wrote:atleast make it so that the player can choice if he/she want's it or not...

this is pretty much taken as red on all new features anyway, every time someone suggests something new someone says it should be able to be turned on or off with a switch..

i think this feature will enhance the "realism" of the gameplay but it may get irritating after a while. it's hard to tell without trying it in practice..

MeusH · Post by **MeusH** » 29 Oct 2004 16:13

I think express railway should be made. It will cost bit more, but trains can go faster (faster delivery=more cash).

It is typical example of economic game. You can pay less money and have smaller profits, you can also pay more for better train\railway and have bigger profits. I think express and standard railways should be made.

About 250km\h coal - it is unreal. At least on standard railway or monorail. I think it should look like this:

max speed = loco's max speed - (train weight in tonnes div 5)

So if train has 150km\h max speed, with 100 tonnes aboard it should have max speed of 130km\h
That's clever, isn't it?

Of course, for all of you, it would be switchable

Bjarni · Post by **Bjarni** » 01 Nov 2004 19:51

actually this is not very hard to do. When a train starts roling, it asks all units in the train about max speed and power. Since it sees cars as engines with 0 power and max 0 km/h, it skips them. If we alter the max speed, it should work.... maybe with a little bit of work, but it would not be a lot of work

Actually I thought about this idea when I worked on multiheaded engines, but since we currently just have one car for each cargo type, it would ruin the game. We need more cars before it can be of any use

Bjarni · Post by **Bjarni** » 01 Nov 2004 20:08

MeusH wrote:About 250km\h coal - it is unreal. At least on standard railway or monorail. I think it should look like this:

max speed = loco's max speed - (train weight in tonnes div 5)

So if train has 150km\h max speed, with 100 tonnes aboard it should have max speed of 130km\h
That's clever, isn't it?

Of course, for all of you, it would be switchable

Actually this is not really how it works. Speed limit is based on how long it takes the train to stop. Coal cars (and other freight cars too) have a switch on the brake for "full" and "empty". This allows it to brake more if it is heavy and still not blocking the brakes. The main issue is length of train. There is a time delay in the brake system. We do not talk about millisekunds like in a car, but whole sekunds.... and for long trains, it can be more than half a minute. The problem is if the front of the train brakes A LOT and the rear not at all yet, you can derail the train. This is why long heavy trains have problems braking. They brake a little and when the rear brakes too, they brake more and so on. Also even through the brake switch helps, the fully loaded freight car will not brake as good as a passenger car

Celestar · Post by **Celestar** » 01 Nov 2004 23:21

Bjarni:

That's not how it work for high-speed trains though

However, for long freight trains it sounds pretty sensible, since most systems are pneumatically powered.

A company in Germany just annouced that they will inaugurate I think the world's first freight service with 200km/h (however that will be used for parcel service).

It makes no sense whatsoever to zoom around coal with 500km/h.

Celestar

swiitsch · Post by **swiitsch** » 01 Nov 2004 23:32

It makes no sense whatsoever to zoom around coal with 500km/h.

Thats not entirely true. Because that would be cool coal! :-D

Bjarni · Post by **Bjarni** » 02 Nov 2004 17:41

Celestar wrote:Bjarni:

That's not how it work for high-speed trains though However, for long freight trains it sounds pretty sensible, since most systems are pneumatically powered.

A company in Germany just annouced that they will inaugurate I think the world's first freight service with 200km/h (however that will be used for parcel service).

It makes no sense whatsoever to zoom around coal with 500km/h.

Celestar

I never claimed it to fit bullettrains, just freight trains with several hundred tons of cargo
And yes, I know how train brakes works. Both pneumatical and electrical

Pneumatically controlled brakes are the oldest system and because of that, it is installed in all freight cars. Modern brake systems are based on electrical signals so there aren't that delay and the power to brake are still based on air pressure, but it opens a lot of valves at the same time to start braking at the same time (instantly). The only problem is that it is expensive and rather new, so it is for newly build passenger trains only. USA are developing a system for their freight trains, but AFAIK they have not started using it yet.
The time delay for braking is roughly 1 sec/20 meters of train. This means that a train driving 200 km/h and is 600 meters, it will drive 1,6 km before the last car is braking (from the place where the brake was pulled). This is why no train of that length drive that fast in real life.

If the train was driving 500 km/h and still is 600 meters long, it will travel 4,2 km instead before the last car starts braking. That's pretty unrealistic that any government will allow that

Transport Tycoon Forums

speed limit also for wagons

speed limit also for wagons

Who is online