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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:42 am 
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accipiter2000 wrote:
The difference is possible.
Not everyone like impossible. Make a switch to let player to decide whether or not to use it.
The game setting is pretty good to satisfy the needs of different people. You guys has did great work on this.
if you guys can make a switch to lead to another possible, i believe it will be better.
There are lots of things impossible in the game, including having a flat world (unless you start with one, which is easy enough). Not only transmitters are in the way, but also villages and industries, for example. Todays AIs don't do much terraforming anymore, but the original AI used to reshape the terrain quite regularly.


Baldy's Boss wrote:
Neither is an acceptable approximation of "really really"!
With a high enough price, the distinction becomes academic. Eg if tearing down a transmitter costs you enough to bankrupt your company, it would be possible, but also mean the end of the game. Not sure how that situation is significant different from impossible. In particular as there are many impossible things in the game, so why is this different?

A flag is likely to meet strong resistance (we have waaaay too many already, general aim is a reduction), a NewGRF extension has much better chances to get accepted as patch.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:47 am 
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Engineer
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Alberth wrote:
There are lots of things impossible in the game, including having a flat world (unless you start with one, which is easy enough). Not only transmitters are in the way, but also villages and industries, for example. Todays AIs don't do much terraforming anymore, but the original AI used to reshape the terrain quite regularly.


resources are removable. if i don't transport any cargo for them, their production will decrease and finally close.
industries are the same. they will close by themselves.
villages are impossible to remove, but they don't impact to my railway network, since they are far away from resources and factories. a mountainous city is actually beautiful and i like it very much.
but transmitters, i can do nothing with them.

the purpose to make a flat world is to make a beautiful and efficient railway network. Transmitters prevent me to do so. Many many times.
i don't think transmitters give this game more factor of pleasure. maybe someone does, but why not let players to decide? a switch is pretty simple to implement, is that right?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:38 am 
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Baldy's Boss wrote:
Neither is an acceptable approximation of "really really"!
With a high enough price, the distinction becomes academic. Eg if tearing down a transmitter costs you enough to bankrupt your company, it would be possible, but also mean the end of the game. Not sure how that situation is significant different from impossible. In particular as there are many impossible things in the game, so why is this different?

A flag is likely to meet strong resistance (we have waaaay too many already, general aim is a reduction), a NewGRF extension has much better chances to get accepted as patch.[/quote]

You seem to be missing my point.I want to replace what is absolutely impossible to remove with something that requires a major sacrifice to remove but can be removed if one is truly determined to do so.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:20 am 
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Baldy's Boss wrote:
I want to replace what is absolutely impossible to remove with something that requires a major sacrifice to remove but can be removed if one is truly determined to do so.

Then burn 100$ bill every time you use magic bulldozer :p


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:41 am 
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_dp_ wrote:
Baldy's Boss wrote:
I want to replace what is absolutely impossible to remove with something that requires a major sacrifice to remove but can be removed if one is truly determined to do so.

Then burn 100$ bill every time you use magic bulldozer :p


magic bulldozer is cheat


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:42 am 
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accipiter2000 wrote:
the purpose to make a flat world is to make a beautiful and efficient railway network. Transmitters prevent me to do so. Many many times.
i don't think transmitters give this game more factor of pleasure. maybe someone does, but why not let players to decide? a switch is pretty simple to implement, is that right?
A network that exploits the local height differences is much more challenging to make efficient, but fair enough.

Implementing a switch is not that complicated, which is why we have too many of them, I think.
However, playing a heightmap is even simpler. Here is one for you, works on any world size, just ignore the warnings of the program.
Attachment:
File comment: no twisty bends needed
flatworld.png
flatworld.png [ 1.47 KiB | Viewed 557 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:37 am 
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accipiter2000 wrote:
magic bulldozer is cheat

The Magic Bulldozer is only a cheat if you choose to use it in such a way. You can just use it to remove those pesky transmitters (Damn them Transmitters :evil: ), you can use it to demolish everything, or you can not use it, and build around them.

If you want a game like this:
accipiter2000 wrote:
the purpose to make a flat world is to make a beautiful and efficient railway network.
Without transmitters getting in your way, then you would use the bulldozer.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:01 pm 
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It's nice to see this discussion, it's fun to discuss the fundamental game mechanic.

It is just a discussion though, whatever is said here is unlikely to result in any decision being made. :) There are very few active OpenTTD developers. Commits are made frequently, but they primarily address issues like bugs, code quality, compilation issues, and newgrf compatibility issues. Changes to transmitters are very unlikely, imho. :) But enjoy the discussion. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Too true. Especially since I doubt that devs would want a "make another option" patch. If anything, it'd need proper GRF support, which I suspect is a bit more complex to do. ^^

Anyway, I think the transmitter properties are in object_land.h
Code:
M(STR_LAI_OBJECT_DESCRIPTION_TRANSMITTER,          0x11,   0,   0, 10, OBJECT_FLAG_CANNOT_REMOVE | OBJECT_FLAG_ONLY_IN_SCENEDIT),

If you feel the desperate need to make them demolish-able without the need for magic dynamite patch your OTTD for basically the exact same effect.
Or if that doesn't work change the world generation so they aren't spawned in the first place ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:22 pm 
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Sadly to see there may not a version to make a switch on this.
but still, thank you guys very much. you have done great work on this game. i have pretty fun in it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Another switch is not a solution. However...
Original TTD houses and industries can be disabled or overridden by a NewGRF: (e.g. http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Ac ... e_.2815.29)
It's not unlikely that similar mechanism for objects could exist. Also the mentioned callback that controls spawning seems to be a fine idea.

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