Towns requiring goods but no station can take them

[Atroskelis]

Hello,

I seem to be having some weird interactions with town growth, some towns require goods but the placement of the station is odd at times:

Screenshot 2021-08-18 205627.png (214.35 KiB) Viewed 3164 times

The fort has building requiring goods as seen by the block info indicator, but i cant put any station which can accept goods.

Another example is

Screenshot 2021-08-19 160915.png (357.23 KiB) Viewed 3164 times

Where the goods are accepted, are only in the 2 red blocks i've drawn, and nowhere else.

Im not sure if this is a bug or due to the NewGRFs i have (which are in the attach) as there are none that influence town growth.

This is 12.0-beta1 but i believe it also happened in version before that.

Any insight is very useful.

Thanks!

[kamnet]

Can you please upload a save file?

[mauried]

Can you blow up one of the squares that will accept goods, then place a truck station on the square.
Then place another truck station on a nearby road with the same station name as the first station.
Then the 2nd station on the road will also accept goods.

[Atroskelis]

Can you please upload a save file?

Hello,

I have attached the savefile.

Many thanks!

[Eddi]

it's not really a bug, but an unfortunate set of circumstances, probably as a result of your combination of newgrfs and game scripts.

towns need enough buildings that accept goods, but early towns usually don't have them. so you first need to grow the town.

that is usually not a problem, unless you also use a game script that requires goods in order to even start growing towns.

However, you seem to be having another problem on top of that. Usually a town in a desert area will be requiring food and water, and some NewGRF seems to have replaced this water requirement with goods.

now, there is not all hope lost here yet. you still have at least two options

1. in the town window, there is the option to "fund new buildings", this will cost a lot of money, but it will temporarily override the requirements for food and water [goods], so you might be able to build up a stable goods acceptance this way.
2. the NewGRF that you loaded might provide an industry like a shop that will permanently accept goods, you can try funding one of those in the town near your station. (Without NewGRFs, this would be the job of the "water tower" industry, which should be placed in every desert town on game start)

[Atroskelis]

it's not really a bug, but an unfortunate set of circumstances, probably as a result of your combination of newgrfs and game scripts.

towns need enough buildings that accept goods, but early towns usually don't have them. so you first need to grow the town.

that is usually not a problem, unless you also use a game script that requires goods in order to even start growing towns.

However, you seem to be having another problem on top of that. Usually a town in a desert area will be requiring food and water, and some NewGRF seems to have replaced this water requirement with goods.

now, there is not all hope lost here yet. you still have at least two options

1. in the town window, there is the option to "fund new buildings", this will cost a lot of money, but it will temporarily override the requirements for food and water [goods], so you might be able to build up a stable goods acceptance this way.
2. the NewGRF that you loaded might provide an industry like a shop that will permanently accept goods, you can try funding one of those in the town near your station. (Without NewGRFs, this would be the job of the "water tower" industry, which should be placed in every desert town on game start)

But i have no game scripts. It's curious that FIRS suggests using Sub-Tropic climate for their In A Hot Country mode. I wonder how other people didnt stumble upon this. Maybe i started too early ?

also FIRS has a "General Store" Industry for this climate which accepts Alcohol, Food, Goods

So let me guess this straight:

First a town has like 100-300 citizens, i see no requirements in the panel. I deliver passengers mail and maybe food. Then it grows. After 800ish it requires goods and food, so i have to keep delivering the first 3 until it can accept goods via station? Does it grow slowly until it can accept goods? Or does it get stuck in my current situation?

I just find it buggy that though buildings accept goods, the stations do not. It doesn't make any sense why in only those 2 blocks it accepts goods as it's not relevant to the coverage?

Can you blow up one of the squares that will accept goods, then place a truck station on the square.
Then place another truck station on a nearby road with the same station name as the first station.
Then the 2nd station on the road will also accept goods.

This basically binds 2 stations, one on the destroyed building, one on the road. It's a weird but effective workaround.

[Atroskelis]

More data:

Vanilla - NO newGRFs, NO game scripts:

Town requires Food and Water, but can only accept food.

Screenshot 2021-08-20 114155.png (230.51 KiB) Viewed 3064 times

Hooked 1 train from a farm to food processing plant, then another train from that to the city. So basically 1 source of food occasionally but it arrives at least once per 8 months

I also carry mail and passengers from a close town.

Town did not grow in 3 years at all.





Case 2 :

Screenshot 2021-08-20 114515.png (377.05 KiB) Viewed 3065 times

Deliver of water and food from 1 source. Passangers and mail delivered.

Town originally had 620 people. When supplied with water/food it fluctuates between 550 and 600 (lower than it initially had

Attached savefile as well

[jfs]

I think the default (built-in) economy for sub-tropical landscape is supposed to put a water tower in every desert town, but maybe it fails sometimes. But town buildings never accept water, only water towers do, so a desert town without a water tower can definitely never grow.

The water and food requirements are every month. You should try to set it up so the town gets a steady trickle of supplies, perhaps via trucks. If both lines don't say "Water delivered" and "Food delivered" at the same time, then the town won't accumulate any growth points and can't expand ever.

For your FIRS game, the rules are basically the same, except that water is replaced with goods, which can also be accepted by town buildings. If the town doesn't have enough buildings to naturally accept goods, then you will need to fund the General Store industry in it to have somewhere to deliver the goods. Same rules, different cargo types.

[Eddi]

a desert town without a water tower can definitely never grow.

that's not entirely true. technically you only need a station that accepts water in the town. doesn't mean the water tower has to be in the same town as the station. (i leave it up to the imagination of the reader to figure out how to achieve this)

[mauried]

The town wont grow while the rating for passengers is poor.
You need to get that up to at least good or very good.
Raising the mail rating will also help.
Running trams in your town is a good way to raise the passenger rating.
Other techniques for making the town grow is funding new buildings.

[Atroskelis]

Thank you all for your replies.

From what I understand this basically means that early starting games i.e (1800) are mostly unfeasible in some circumstances.

Regarding rating. I will test some cases but with early slow vehicles i doubt the station rating can get high, most vehicles dont go above 30km/h.
I reckon the game requires you to have either multiple sources of food/water to one town in order for consistent green requirements fulfilled.

I will look more on towns with water sources but from what ive seen all establishments break in 3 categories: town with no requirements, town with food/water but no tower, city with food/water with tower.

[Eddi]

the rating has absolutely no effect on town growth. all you need is multiple stations that see frequent service. it doesn't matter which cargo you transport (other than the two required cargos in deserts, and one required cargo in snow)

[Atroskelis]

More data:

The year is irrelevant. You can start as recent as 2000 and the issue still exists.

This feels more like a bug than anything. You can spawn with cities that have over 2k people that have no water tower. Towns with 85 people can spawn WITH a water tower but no requirement.

[panswato]

From my old save game.....Construct Hard Ware Store near Railway Station. She will receive anything.
[attachment=0]hardware3.png[/attachttps://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?mod ... 4140dhment]

[panswato]

And from this one. Seoul Station with NewGRFs decoration and nearby Hard Ware Store receive more. download/file.php?mode=view&id=218996