A few OTTD questions.

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A few OTTD questions.

Post by Maverick »

Yes, I'm a bit of a newbie, and a bit shocked at OTTD. It's some great work, but as the title says, I have a few questions.
I already found the "multiple_industry_per_town" which was a nice addition.

1. OTTD's backwards compatibility with TTD save games and scenarios, does it exist? And to what level?
Yes, I'm having trouble importing previous saved games, and, most importantly, scenarios.

2. Why does OTTD still keep around a few TTD shackles such as the Maximum Industry limit/map, maximum primary industry production, and maximum secondary industry production report?
Yes, I want lots of industries, on an epic scale.

3. Is altering industry production TTD Alter style possible? If not, why not? If so, how? :)
See above :)

4. Is it possible to link two rail stations together which are on perpendicular angles, or not at all (crawl style), to each other?
I would find it more efficent with multiple stations linked together.

5. Is there a wiki (of sorts) yet?
TTDPatch implementing a small wikipedia for themselves has resulted in much more watching DivX time for the dev's, and multiplying the number of snub posts by a factor of Four!

Now for some Question-Suggestions...

1. How about a drag and drop signalator?
Similar to the convert/build rail tool, but two-way (or other) signalates a section of rail of your choosing. I'll tell you, my RSI does not like it when I expend from 12 lanes to 14, because it means A LOT of signalation.

2. Bridges Over Industries?
You can just reply with an *impossible* to this one if you like.

3. Multi-Level Crossing Brudges?
If not, why not.

4. Larger/different Airports.
If not, why not.

5. Customizable GUI.
Some tools I find just silly, others infinitely useful. I can't tell you how much I laughed when I saw auto-rail. OTTD is just feeling so newbie-friendly :)

4. Perhaps not specifically for the OTTD devs, but someone with an old Roland or similar exceptional MIDI card to convert them into a lossless or V. high quality lossy format.


As you can tell, I loaded up OTTD less than an hour ago, and I was quite impressed. Beyond that actually, Shocked.
When OTTD first came out, I was resentful of it, and I thought it would all disappear in a few weeks. It didnt, and the larger maps are just awesome. Once those larger maps get more stable, and the industry limit removed, that is going to be some serious cargo shipped numbers.

To summarise-
Incredible Work Dev Team...
Now Mav Selfishly Demands More!


Whilst offering to...
1. Write documentation ( I have previously worked for a Australian magazine called Australian PC Authority, so my journalistic and english skills are generally up to scratch, when I'm not posting on a forum)
2. Beta test to where other users will not push OTTD. To an epic scale. ( I like big. Bigger, Better, Faster, More and More efficent. Efficiency is a big thing for me)
3. Ungodly quantities of Media that is completely legal, downloadable from FTP sites. And when I say legal, I mean as legal as Linux is in the eyes of SCO.

Yes, I know that's not A LOT to offer, but I can't demand

If anyone finds this post offending, as I expect a few will, I don't really want to know about how you think I should be more grateful. I just signaled they did great work, now I'm self-aware some demands are outlandish, but the OTTD dev team needs a *Impossible* list, just like the TTD Patch guys have
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Post by Greeny »

I would like to know some of those quetions??
anybody know :?: 8) :?:
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Post by GoneWacko »

I think you can alter the production of your industry by editing the source code :roll:

Don't know about the rest. :)
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by dominik81 »

Maverick wrote:1. OTTD's backwards compatibility with TTD save games and scenarios, does it exist? And to what level?
TTD savegames are 100% compatible with OpenTTD. Only some savegames from TTDpatch are not compatible.
Maverick wrote:2. Why does OTTD still keep around a few TTD shackles such as the Maximum Industry limit/map, maximum primary industry production, and maximum secondary industry production report?
Is there a maximum industriy limit? I guess I've never build that many industries. The maximum production will most likely change in the future. Please post a feature request at SourceForge, so we don't forget about it.
Maverick wrote:4. Is it possible to link two rail stations together which are on perpendicular angles, or not at all (crawl style), to each other?
I would find it more efficent with multiple stations linked together.
Activate "Non-uniform stations" to be able to expand the station. You can add station parts in any direction. You can even remove single tiles of a station by using the "place sign" tool and ctrl-clicking on the station.
Maverick wrote:5. Is there a wiki (of sorts) yet?
TTDPatch implementing a small wikipedia for themselves has resulted in much more watching DivX time for the dev's, and multiplying the number of snub posts by a factor of Four!
Good idea I think. Questions do start to repeat a lot.
Maverick wrote:1. How about a drag and drop signalator?
Similar to the convert/build rail tool, but two-way (or other) signalates a section of rail of your choosing. I'll tell you, my RSI does not like it when I expend from 12 lanes to 14, because it means A LOT of signalation.
This was discuessed in some other thread. I'm not really convinced that this is necessary.
Maverick wrote:2. Bridges Over Industries?
You can just reply with an *impossible* to this one if you like.
Impossible, at least currently. And it doesn't make much sense either.
Maverick wrote:3. Multi-Level Crossing Brudges?
If not, why not.
Currently not possible either. A bridge can only have a perpendicular road/rail piece underneath. That's due to RAM usage. Maybe this will change, but not very soon.
Maverick wrote:4. Larger/different Airports.
If not, why not.
Being currently developed by Darkvater.
Maverick wrote:5. Customizable GUI.
Some tools I find just silly, others infinitely useful. I can't tell you how much I laughed when I saw auto-rail. OTTD is just feeling so newbie-friendly :)
A customizeable GUI is very unlikely, but the GUI will most likely get a complete revision.
Maverick wrote:4. Perhaps not specifically for the OTTD devs, but someone with an old Roland or similar exceptional MIDI card to convert them into a lossless or V. high quality lossy format.
We can't add any of the original TTD data to OpenTTD. No matter which format they are.

Maverick wrote:Whilst offering to...
1. Write documentation ( I have previously worked for a Australian magazine called Australian PC Authority, so my journalistic and english skills are generally up to scratch, when I'm not posting on a forum)
That would be a nice thing. As you can't imagine the developers rather work on the code than writing documentations. :wink:
Maverick wrote:3. Ungodly quantities of Media that is completely legal, downloadable from FTP sites. And when I say legal, I mean as legal as Linux is in the eyes of SCO.
I'd love to see free GRF files to replace all TTD graphics. Not because I don't like the TTD graphics, but to make it possible for people who don't own TTD to play OpenTTD.
Maverick wrote:... but the OTTD dev team needs a *Impossible* list, just like the TTD Patch guys have


Nothing is "impossible". It would be more a "we don't want it" and "it would be too much work to implement it right now" list.
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Post by Maverick »

Greeny wrote:I would like to know some of those quetions??
anybody know :?: 8) :?:
Agreed.
GoneWacko wrote:I think you can alter the production of your industry by editing the source code :roll:

Don't know about the rest. :)
No, no, it's the maximum I want raised. Instead of a max of 2000 units of livestock / industry, why not 8k? 64k? 128k?
I've done a quick look through the Sauce.. HaHa.. But have not immdiately found anything.
when grep'ing for farms, some rather irrelevant things come up.
But that's ONE answer :) I'd really like all of the Q's answered. And look, They're Numbered for easily reply!
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by Darkvater »

Maverick wrote: 1. How about a drag and drop signalator?
Similar to the convert/build rail tool, but two-way (or other) signalates a section of rail of your choosing. I'll tell you, my RSI does not like it when I expend from 12 lanes to 14, because it means A LOT of signalation.
5. Customizable GUI.
Some tools I find just silly, others infinitely useful. I can't tell you how much I laughed when I saw auto-rail. OTTD is just feeling so newbie-friendly :)
Dominik did a great job answering most of your questions. But these 2 points puzzle me. You want a drag-and-drop signalator because it is obviously boring to go by every tile and placing signals there. Not even to speak of the RSI issues. But tell me, why you find drag-and-drop rails (eg. autorail) silly, or newbish? It has the same idea as issue 1., namely not stressing your RSI sensitive areas, and removing a LOT of repetitive work (eg, building rails north-south and east-west, is a pain in the ass, and putting down all rails hand by hand, single rail by single rail is just wrong).

Now what is the difference between auto-rail and auto-signal?
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by Bjarni »

dominik81 wrote:
Maverick wrote:Whilst offering to...
1. Write documentation ( I have previously worked for a Australian magazine called Australian PC Authority, so my journalistic and english skills are generally up to scratch, when I'm not posting on a forum)
That would be a nice thing. As you can't imagine the developers rather work on the code than writing documentations. :wink:
MYOB told me yesterday what his manual writing is nearly done. He hopes to finish it this weekend
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by Maverick »

Darkvater wrote: Dominik did a great job answering most of your questions. But these 2 points puzzle me. You want a drag-and-drop signalator because it is obviously boring to go by every tile and placing signals there. Not even to speak of the RSI issues. But tell me, why you find drag-and-drop rails (eg. autorail) silly, or newbish? It has the same idea as issue 1., namely not stressing your RSI sensitive areas, and removing a LOT of repetitive work (eg, building rails north-south and east-west, is a pain in the ass, and putting down all rails hand by hand, single rail by single rail is just wrong).

Now what is the difference between auto-rail and auto-signal?
The difference?
Auto-rail is something I completely did not expect, it was something not even plausable at first, even the thought! :)
It was a mildly welcome addition, but I have not really used it just yet.
And yes, Diagonal rails are annoying. So I think you mis-interpreted me a little, It was simply unexpected, not unwelcome :)
dominik81 wrote:TTD savegames are 100% compatible with OpenTTD. Only some savegames from TTDpatch are not compatible.
Any more details on what savegames are incompatible? A certain switch, in the ttdpatch cfg?
dominik81 wrote:Is there a maximum industriy limit? I guess I've never build that many industries. The maximum production will most likely change in the future. Please post a feature request at SourceForge, so we don't forget about it.
I am fairly certain it is 256, but in any case, I shall be posting one very soon.

dominik81 wrote:Activate "Non-uniform stations" to be able to expand the station. You can add station parts in any direction. You can even remove single tiles of a station by using the "place sign" tool and ctrl-clicking on the station.
Thanks!
dominik81 wrote:This was discuessed in some other thread. I'm not really convinced that this is necessary.
For building on a larger than normal scale, I could not disagree more.
dominik81 wrote:That would be a nice thing. As you can't imagine the developers rather work on the code than writing documentations. :wink:
Then PM me :)


dominik81 wrote:I'd love to see free GRF files to replace all TTD graphics. Not because I don't like the TTD graphics, but to make it possible for people who don't own TTD to play OpenTTD.
I think you missed the point I was putting across there :) It was not in reference to the GRF's. It was in reference to .avi's or .rar's.

In summary, Dominik, Thanks for replying to all my questions!
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by dominik81 »

Maverick wrote:
dominik81 wrote:TTD savegames are 100% compatible with OpenTTD. Only some savegames from TTDpatch are not compatible.
Any more details on what savegames are incompatible? A certain switch, in the ttdpatch cfg?
Most savegames that use TTDpatch specific thing are not compatible. I don't have TTDpatch (kinda hard on Linux...), so I can't tell yu exactly which ones. If you remove anything that wasn't in TTD (like presignals, canals,...) it might work.
Maverick wrote:
dominik81 wrote:This was discuessed in some other thread. I'm not really convinced that this is necessary.
For building on a larger than normal scale, I could not disagree more.
You don't need signals on every tile to have a good working network.
Maverick wrote:
dominik81 wrote:That would be a nice thing. As you can't imagine the developers rather work on the code than writing documentations. :wink:
Then PM me :)
We'll most likely put up a Wiki in the future.
Maverick wrote:]I think you missed the point I was putting across there :) It was not in reference to the GRF's. It was in reference to .avi's or .rar's.
What would you want AVIs and RARs for? Like intro movies? Who's supposed to film/render/make them?
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Post by Maverick »

Okay, okay, One LAST need, after this, I can go off and start on my next OTTD scen and will not bother you again...
Number three was never answered, and it is essential to what I do in TT.
Maverick wrote:"3. Is altering industry production TTD Alter style possible? If not, why not? If so, how?"
Once you can help me with this, I'll retreat into my little world and cease to bother you with incessant problems.
dominik81 wrote:What would you want AVIs and RARs for? Like intro movies? Who's supposed to film/render/make them
Ill just PM you. :)
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by orudge »

Maverick wrote:3. Is altering industry production TTD Alter style possible? If not, why not? If so, how? :)
Well, on this note, TTDAlter does not, and will not, work with OpenTTD, because, while there are similarities between the OpenTTD and TTD internal EXE structure, there are many, many differences, plus OpenTTD is in constant development.
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by Darkvater »

orudge wrote:
Maverick wrote:3. Is altering industry production TTD Alter style possible? If not, why not? If so, how? :)
Well, on this note, TTDAlter does not, and will not, work with OpenTTD, because, while there are similarities between the OpenTTD and TTD internal EXE structure, there are many, many differences, plus OpenTTD is in constant development.
What owen means is that unless you compile your own copy of openttd you cannot change productionrates :)
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by Maverick »

orudge wrote:
Maverick wrote:3. Is altering industry production TTD Alter style possible? If not, why not? If so, how? :)
Well, on this note, TTDAlter does not, and will not, work with OpenTTD, because, while there are similarities between the OpenTTD and TTD internal EXE structure, there are many, many differences, plus OpenTTD is in constant development.
I was refering to the functionality of the program, not the program itself.
This also does not answer my question...
What owen means is that unless you compile your own copy of openttd you cannot change productionrates
This again does not help me.
Information and assistance on how to compile my own copy does.
For linux what gcc ver do I need? and libraries?
Also, where in the source to look and change?

Under windows, I'm set to go with VC++ .NET, I just need to be lead by the hand. (this is where a wiki would help)
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by Korenn »

Maverick wrote:Under windows, I'm set to go with VC++ .NET, I just need to be lead by the hand. (this is where a wiki would help)
There's a readme that comes with the source. I suggest you read it.
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

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Korenn wrote:There's a readme that comes with the source. I suggest you read it.
That was a good one! I'll put it in my signature. :D
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by Darkvater »

Maverick wrote: Under windows, I'm set to go with VC++ .NET, I just need to be lead by the hand. (this is where a wiki would help)
I suggest you read up here: http://www.openttd.com/development.php

The easiest things to do is:
1. Install tortoise SVN
2. Get the source from the repository
3. Get the useful file libraries (zlib, png)
4. Either set up a different working directory for openttd, or just copy all needed data files (eg grf, music) to the appropiate directory

5. Compile and enjoy

I think you should be looking in somewhere industry_cmd.c and landscape_const.h The industry thing is still puzzling to me

I just found something I think:
Look in industry_cmd.c line 1627, it handles industry production increase/decrease. To change initial production rate when the industry is built, look in build_industry.h line 1066. If you would like to change the production ingame, I'd either suggest you hack the savegame, or just add a button that calls the increase part of MaybeCloseIndustry :)
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by Maverick »

Korenn wrote:
Maverick wrote:Under windows, I'm set to go with VC++ .NET, I just need to be lead by the hand. (this is where a wiki would help)
There's a readme that comes with the source. I suggest you read it.
If you're going to help, please, put a little effort in, like telling me a line to change, or even which .c file to fool around with.

If you're going to refer me to a 7KB text file that makes no reference to industries, production, or how the source is laid out... Then there's really not much help in your post other than posturing.
Darkvater wrote:
Maverick wrote: Under windows, I'm set to go with VC++ .NET, I just need to be lead by the hand. (this is where a wiki would help)
I suggest you read up here: http://www.openttd.com/development.php

The easiest things to do is:
1. Install tortoise SVN
2. Get the source from the repository
3. Get the useful file libraries (zlib, png)
4. Either set up a different working directory for openttd, or just copy all needed data files (eg grf, music) to the appropiate directory

5. Compile and enjoy

I think you should be looking in somewhere industry_cmd.c and landscape_const.h The industry thing is still puzzling to me

I just found something I think:
Look in industry_cmd.c line 1627, it handles industry production increase/decrease. To change initial production rate when the industry is built, look in build_industry.h line 1066. If you would like to change the production ingame, I'd either suggest you hack the savegame, or just add a button that calls the increase part of MaybeCloseIndustry :)
See, now THIS is helpful darkvater! :)
I've been playing with those files, but finding it difficult. But that's okay, now I know where to look, It's A LOT easier.

HEck, might even post a guide on how to edit industries with a bit of luck :)
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by dominik81 »

Maverick wrote:HEck, might even post a guide on how to edit industries with a bit of luck :)
I don't think it's a good idea to have a guide for that. Than everyone starts editing the source and compiling their own version. Don't know where that would lead.
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Re: A few OTTD questions.

Post by Darkvater »

dominik81 wrote:
Maverick wrote:HEck, might even post a guide on how to edit industries with a bit of luck :)
I don't think it's a good idea to have a guide for that. Than everyone starts editing the source and compiling their own version. Don't know where that would lead.
We will get a lot of forks :)

Like:
  • Korenn's big map fork
  • Maverick's double industry production rate
  • A's big map with double production rate
  • B's big double map with increased production for farms
  • C's small map with almost dead industries
Haha, that would be fun though :) . I don't think a guide is the best plan to do either, since the code will change heavily, and there's no garantee that your guide will work with the next version.
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Post by MT3269 »

I also have a couple a issues with opttd ,

First of all ,it won't do close up screens ,like when you wanna adjust a specific signal behind a tree or somethin ,it's harder to see it.

Second ,the scroll around with the keyboard(and control) isnt immediate like in normal ttd ,so it takes up valuable seconds unless you use the mouse ,which I find kinda inconvenient.
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