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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:49 am 
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Back again with another question. I suppose also to see if George is still perusing the forums ;)

Another Cannery oddity is happening. I cant seem to get it to produce fertilizer. I have both Fish and Livestock coming in, but only food is being produced. Im not shipping food out. I wanted to use the fetilizer to drop at a farm on the way back to get more livestock.

Am I missing some mechanic behind the scenes?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:01 pm 
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OldManPopo wrote:
Back again with another question. I suppose also to see if George is still perusing the forums ;)
Another Cannery oddity is happening. I cant seem to get it to produce fertilizer. I have both Fish and Livestock coming in, but only food is being produced. Im not shipping food out. I wanted to use the fertilizer to drop at a farm on the way back to get more livestock.
Am I missing some mechanic behind the scenes?
Yes. All the fertilizer production in agricultural vector is a minor production of the fixed % from food production. The only way to get more fertilizer is to produce more food, and even in this case it is not much.
The only source of much fertilizer is fertilizer plant.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:10 pm 
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Hi,
hope the forum is still alive :)
I am getting negative payment for delivering fertilizer:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/yc5lsxzlp ... TD_scr.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/download/qlgpg ... g_2065.sav

Maybe I have something set wrong, but have noticed this on some trains, but not on every delivery.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:52 am 
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yavvie wrote:
hope the forum is still alive :)
I am getting negative payment for delivering fertilizer:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/yc5lsxzlp ... TD_scr.jpg
Maybe I have something set wrong, but have noticed this on some trains, but not on every delivery.
You are trying to deliver too much fertilizer while your fruit plantations do not require that much fertilizer. It causes useless run of the train and cause negative income.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Look at the screenshot pls - the farm accepts fertilizer (1188 out of 2047), the train unloads, but as you can see above the train this doesn't generate income, but cost. The cost shows above the train in the station in red.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:16 am 
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yavvie wrote:
Look at the screenshot pls - the farm accepts fertilizer (1188 out of 2047), the train unloads, but as you can see above the train this doesn't generate income, but cost. The cost shows above the train in the station in red.
made a longer run of a game and in 2066 it got profit. May be the negative income was caused by transfer payment where the cargo waited too long to be delivered?
In 2067 it started to get negative income again, because the farm has reached its limit and does not accept fertilizer any more.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:00 am 
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I think this is a pretty common scenario, and it's not even related to the ECS vectors:
http://wiki.openttd.org/Negative_income_with_feeder_service


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Brumi wrote:
I think this is a pretty common scenario, and it's not even related to the ECS vectors:
http://wiki.openttd.org/Negative_income_with_feeder_service


Its neither unload or transfer, the destination is right at the given train station and accepts the load.
(And also, I dont get negative for unload/transfer on other trains. They get paid normally.)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:03 pm 
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I mean this:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/dfu9b4w87 ... d-001.jpg#

The train arrives at the station carrying fertilizer - the plantation accepts
http://www.mediafire.com/view/tka5s1w22 ... _full.jpg#

Then it unloads and instead of income gets cost
http://www.mediafire.com/view/9e9lp7e8l ... nload.jpg#
http://www.mediafire.com/view/dfu9b4w87 ... d-001.jpg#

This is second train, but the situation is the same. I only get this with fertilizer, everything else is OK.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:49 pm 
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Cargo-dist uses transfer, to unload+load at intermediate stations, even if you don't set it in your orders.
It smells strongly to the transfer costs paid by the last vehicle. It's one of the very few ways to get higher costs than the running costs of the train itself. (In fact, I don't even know another possible cause.)

Try changing the feeder share. If it is really not the feeder mechanism, nothing will happen (to that train). My money is on seeing a change though.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:11 am 
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I checked the game save quickly to see what's going on.
From the first screen shot showing train 180 making negative income upon a delivery: that train is picking up fertilizer from Kindinghall Airport. And the fertilizer is delivered to that airport by planes. Those planes have the transfer orders.

For example, when plane 6 makes the delivery of fertiziler from Airport A to Airport B, you take some credit, compute from how fast it traveled from A to B, assuming it will travel roughly at the same speed from B to farm/plantation etc. But the train that makes the last leg of the fertilizer's journey travels slower. So that initial credit you took was too much - you must pay back for the slowness of the last part of the fertilizer delivery.

That's where all the talk about transfer comes from.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:17 pm 
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Hi there,

i wanted to ask if others encounter similar behaviour of animal farms, enabled through ECS Agricultural vector, like it is in my openttd games/maps.

I create a new map (random map with new game) only ecs.agricultural vector enabled as newgrf
have a transport of cereals from a farm to an animal farm (train or truck whatever)
once it unloads cereals cargo in the animalfarm goes up. Then after cereals reduce and fibre crops go up, but with no transport of fibre crops at all. It seems to interact with cereals transport though.

In my screenshot there are 2 different animal farms on screen and it is already at the start that the farm seems to have 6 tons of fibre crops waiting rest all 0 with no transport made.

I tried with different newgrf versions of ecsagri - all with the same behaviour
The one from ingame newgrf download,
one from http://george.zernebok.net/newgrf/downloads.html
and last one from http://george.zernebok.net/ too, but under a temp folder (that was posted somewhere in a forum don't know which one anymore)

So my question is, is this normal or intended or do i have a problem with my openttd version? or maybe an outdated version of ecsagri?

Thanks
Matthias

Attachment:
File comment: Testmap random generated
Test.sav [106.63 KiB]
Downloaded 13 times

Attachment:
File comment: openttd screenshot
Unbenannt.png [1019.68 KiB]
Not downloaded yet


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:24 pm 
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Motz wrote:
Hi there,
i wanted to ask if others encounter similar behavior of animal farms, enabled through ECS Agricultural vector, like it is in my openttd games/maps.
Every animal farm produces some small amount of fiber crops by itself for its own needs as soon as it is not covered with snow. This answers on question how do fiber crops appear.
Then animals at the farm eat the food they have. Most waiting cargo is processed first.
So, when you provide no support, produced fiber crops are processed and you do not see it.
When you provide cereals, it get processed first and fiber crops stays unused. As soon you stop supporting with cereals, both of them become processed and disappear.
http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECS_Agricultural_Vector._Animal_Farm wrote:
Additionally, when the animal farm is not covered with snow, animals and farmers gather fibre crops themselves. Amount of fibre crops, gathered by animals is calculated as % of number of animals. Amount of fibre crops, gathered by farmers, is fixed and represented in the table

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:57 pm 
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Hi.

I fired up OpenTTD again and tried ECS Vectors but have run into the above problem - supplying wood to a sawmill does not produce anything. OpenTTD 1.5.3 & ECS Wood Vector 1.1.2.

I've tried it with ECS Town Vector 1.1.2 & ECS Wood Vector 1.1.2 only, and in that GRF load sequence.

It also happens with the full set, ECS Town, Basic II, Agricultural, Chemicals, Machinery & Wood Vectors all active - no other GRF's loaded.

Any ideas?

Kind regards,

Ian.

Edit: Savegame quick example created and attached


Attachments:
Sawmill Problem Example.sav [88.28 KiB]
Downloaded 13 times


Last edited by igmac on Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:25 am 
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igmac wrote:
I fired up OpenTTD again and tried ECS Vectors but have run into the above problem - supplying wood to a sawmill does not produce anything. OpenTTD 1.5.3 & ECS Wood Vector 1.1.2.
Any ideas?
A save game?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:56 pm 
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On the wiki page, it talks about a 'mammoth' coal mine layout, but I have yet to find one (after checking <100 mines). Does it even exist, or is it just extremely rare?
On a side note, does the production changes table on that page extend to all primary industries, or do they have their own tables?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:49 pm 
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bvoice360 wrote:
On the wiki page, it talks about a 'mammoth' coal mine layout, but I have yet to find one (after checking <100 mines). Does it even exist, or is it just extremely rare?
yes, it is
Attachment:
2016-01-03 21-43-05 Скриншот экрана.png
2016-01-03 21-43-05 Скриншот экрана.png [ 102.04 KiB | Viewed 864 times ]
Attachment:
2016-01-03 21-43-57 Скриншот экрана.png
2016-01-03 21-43-57 Скриншот экрана.png [ 132.32 KiB | Viewed 864 times ]


Quote:
On a side note, does the production changes table on that page extend to all primary industries, or do they have their own tables?
The tables should be the same

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:56 pm 
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igmac wrote:
Edit: Savegame quick example created and attached
As I can see it processes wood as intended.
But it should not produce goods. It produces wood products, so your goods train would never load.


Attachments:
2016-01-03 21-55-10 Скриншот экрана.png
2016-01-03 21-55-10 Скриншот экрана.png [ 146.38 KiB | Viewed 863 times ]

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Last edited by George on Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:04 pm 
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In that case, what is the probability of a coal mine being a mammoth? I have only 4 of them on a 2k map.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:14 pm 
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bvoice360 wrote:
In that case, what is the probability of a coal mine being a mammoth? I have only 4 of them on a 2k map.
Every layout has 1/9 chance to be build, but...
It only a chance to try. In many places it would fail (it requires wide area of flat land). So on the average map you would not get 22% of them.
The more flat land you have on your map, the more chance you get to have 22% of them.

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