Sound very choppy in Windows Vista

maartena · Post by **maartena** » 30 Dec 2006 00:33

I definitely think there is a compatibility issue with Windows Vista. I am still trying to see if I can find a workaround, but it doesn't look likely.

It's probably easy to fix in the coding, it just requires someone to install Vista. You can install Vista WITHOUT ANY key and work on it for 3 days without activation.

I can upload the Vista disc somewhere if needed (although torrents would be faster), but I can't give you my MSDN key. Anyone willing can at least install it for 3 days to see if it is an easy fix.

edwardvdv · Post by **edwardvdv** » 30 Dec 2006 09:07

I can confirm this weird sound problem, too. Running Vista RTM 64-bit. Checking compatibility options does not seem to help. Upgraded my sound drivers (Realtek AC97 on Asus A8N-SLI Premium) to no avail.

I'm not a dev either, but if I can be of any assistance please let me know in what way I can cooperate.

BTW: I entered this bug into the bugtracker @ http://bugs.openttd.org/task/489 as requested in the post http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=7253 by orudge.

Nickman · Post by **Nickman** » 30 Dec 2006 18:31

When I install vista, I will check if the sound is choppy here to...

maartena · Post by **maartena** » 31 Dec 2006 07:03

edwardvdv wrote:BTW: I entered this bug into the bugtracker @ http://bugs.openttd.org/task/489 as requested in the post http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=7253 by orudge.

Thanks. The same problem is still an issue in 0.5.0-RC2.

I believe that we will need one of the devs to install Vista to get the compatability issues worked out. Not everyone likes Vista, but 2007 is going to be Vista's year.

Sacro · Post by **Sacro** » 31 Dec 2006 15:16

It's a bit silly bugfixing for Vista RC2 when the full release is only a few weeks away, and more might have changed by then, It's also rumoured that the RTM that got leaked from the Business edition might get altered for the actual release...

So it's maybe best to wait.

maartena · Post by **maartena** » 31 Dec 2006 17:04

Sacro wrote:It's a bit silly bugfixing for Vista RC2 when the full release is only a few weeks away, and more might have changed by then, It's also rumoured that the RTM that got leaked from the Business edition might get altered for the actual release...

So it's maybe best to wait.

The full RTM of Windows Vista was released on November 30th for businesses, and I already have the final version of Windows Vista Ultimate through my works MSDN subscription. The final code has been done. The only reason why the release to consumers is in January is because they need to print an awfull lot of boxes and dvd's, and distribute them.

I am runnning the final build of Windows Vista. Any code changes to Vista that are coming will be in the form of Windows Update downloadables, the actual DVD's are in full production right now.

The first OEM PC's with Vista pre-loaded are expected to hit the stores within the next 3 or 4 weeks.

Nickman · Post by **Nickman** » 21 Jan 2007 13:30

Don't know if you still have the problem, but I installed vista and I have no problem with the sound as far as I can hear...

goldberg · Post by **goldberg** » 22 Jan 2007 11:59

Maybe this is an effect of M$ vista paranoid content protection schemes?
You know... tilt bits, deliberate degrading of audio/video quality, etc.
According to M$ specs sound should be "fuzzy with less detail", but maybe vista's "constrictor" doesnt work well with open source software at all?
Maybe your soundcard doesnt pass "Hardware Functionality Scan"?

Nevertheless, I'm assured that as a MSDN subscriber you are fully aware of all this stuff.

edwardvdv · Post by **edwardvdv** » 22 Jan 2007 14:49

maartena and I both use the AC97 drivers. Maybe they are the problem???

Nickman · Post by **Nickman** » 22 Jan 2007 17:07

I'm using my Audigy 2 ZS... So maybe yes...

I could try with my onboard sound, not shure which one I have, I'll check

goldberg · Post by **goldberg** » 23 Jan 2007 13:29

I suppose there will be problems with drivers in general. Let me quote Peter Gutmann from University of Auckland:

"Since HFS requires unique identification and handling of not just each device type (for example each graphics chip) but each variant of each device type (for example each stepping of each graphics chip) to handle the situation where a problem is found with one variation of a device, it's no longer possible to create one-size-fits-all drivers for an entire range of devices like the current Catalyst/Detonator/ForceWare drivers."

*HFS = Hardware Functionality Scan. You dont pass HFS => you cant play "commercial content" (for example hd movies from blue-ray) under Vista.

M$ claims right to "revoke" a device, which doesnt pass HFS or has a driver that could potentially allow user to get access to protected content.
As for every piece of hardware you should have a different driver, noone will have time nor money to write new drivers for old hardware, to get it work under M$ Vista.

Therefore, it is likely, that for an old sound/graphics card a working driver will never exist.

Darkvater · Post by **Darkvater** » 23 Jan 2007 14:26

Don't we just love Vista? :puke:

Killer 11 · Post by **Killer 11** » 23 Jan 2007 16:09

That sounds HORRIBLE, that means half of the world will need to buy new hardware to even get drivers, and the times of browsing trought thousands of drivers in libraries will come back again too... THE HELL!

goldberg · Post by **goldberg** » 23 Jan 2007 20:50

I presume this wont happen soon. I dont even know if it will happen at all.
I consider it to be risky for M$ to use all of Vista's potential from the beginning. It may p*** off customers, and competition is only waiting for this.
Who knows? Maybe "Google strikes with new OS" and "M$ Vista sales hit the bottom" wont be just april fools day headlines

Though what M$ intents to do and what M$ is capable to do with Vista, is very clear right now.

Quinnyowns · Post by **Quinnyowns** » 24 Jan 2007 02:52

My OEM copy of Vista should arrive in the next few days.

I have a Digifire soundcard rather than onboard sound so I should be safe amarite?

If OTTD doesn't work then I'm sticking with XP.

goldberg · Post by **goldberg** » 24 Jan 2007 10:32

I dont know. Make tests and let us know.

Quinnyowns · Post by **Quinnyowns** » 25 Jan 2007 01:53

Vista is now installed. My soundcard drivers (Hercules Digifire 7.1) were last updated in 2003, and do not work at all with Vista. Consequently I have no sound to test.

Also I can't install graphics drivers either.

maartena · Post by **maartena** » 25 Jan 2007 17:16

edwardvdv wrote:maartena and I both use the AC97 drivers. Maybe they are the problem???

Possible. I am noticing a big increase in CPU utilization when i play OpenTTD, I can only play it with the "null" sound driver, and even then it easily takes up 20-30% CPU on Vista.

My PC is a Pentium 4, 2.53 Ghz, 1 Gb Ram, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro and the onboard AC'97 with realtek drivers.

I am however expecting new hardware today. (yay!) A Core 2 Duo E6600, Asus Mainboard, 2 Gb of memory, and a ATI x1950 - I will build my system tonight or tomorrow, and let you know how things go with Vista - I am installing Vista Ultimate.

My "old" P4 will become my server. My OpenTTD server is offline as of last night, as I killed my trusted P2-350 that has been running it, but with a little luck I will have a server back up in the next 2 days.

Either way, I will let you know my findings with the dual core CPU. My current feelings are that it will work, simply because the core 2 duo will be able to handle the Vista/driver bug. Will let you know how it goes.

maartena · Post by **maartena** » 25 Jan 2007 17:17

Darkvater wrote:Don't we just love Vista? :puke:

Hidden message from the dev guru: Forget about Windows Vista support. Ever.

maartena · Post by **maartena** » 27 Jan 2007 19:20

Okay, here's a followup:

I got new hardware: Intel Core 2 Duo, E6600 2.4 Ghz, Asus P5B, 2GB of RAM, ATI x1950 Pro graphics card.

On my previous setup I had the 32 bits version of Windows Vista Ultimate installed, this time I opted for the 64 bits version of Windows Vista.

I tried both the 32 bits and 64 bits versions of OpenTTD and they both work without problems..... except the sound. Again. Its still choppy, even with all that power behind it.

This time the Asus P5B mainboard comes with a Soundmax soundcard with HD audio. The drivers that came from Asus actually don't even work so I left it with the drivers that came with Windows Vista by default, which again work with ALL applications and games that produce sound..... except OpenTTD.

Conclusion: The game will need some code reqorking to work properly on Vista. I'm not planning to go back to XP, (the mediacenter that comes with Vista is way too awesome) so I will play with the -null driver for now.

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Sound very choppy in Windows Vista

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