one-way rails and "implicit" signals

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PointLuck
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one-way rails and "implicit" signals

Post by PointLuck »

Hi,

I'm not sure what to search for, but I couldn't find anything about my question in this forum:

I saw there is a patch that introduces "implicit signals" for tunnels and bridges. You can't directly place them, but they are visually shown and path finding respects them. Do you know if there is something similar for normal tracks? I was thinking of how you would mark a stretch of rail as one-way and then there are implicit signals, eg, every tile, so that path finding will support smooth queueing/trailing trains there. Those signals dont have to be necessarily visible like normal signals, could also instead be depicted alternatively and less obtrusively.

Is there already a patch like that? Is that something that can only be added by doing a patch, or does a GRF have enough control to implement that?

/PointLuck
Taschi
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Re: one-way rails and "implicit" signals

Post by Taschi »

Do you know that you can quickly place signals at regular intervals on any regular track by just dragging and dropping?

I don't really see what advantage "implicit signals" would offer over just doing that.
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jfs
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Re: one-way rails and "implicit" signals

Post by jfs »

Yes, you can click and drag with the signal building tool over a stretch of track to build signals at regular intervals on that track, or you can hold Ctrl and drag from an existing signal to build identical signals following the track through all turns etc. in the direction you dragged from.
PointLuck
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Re: one-way rails and "implicit" signals

Post by PointLuck »

It's funny. Somehow this feels like an emotional topic more than anything else :)

Indeed, I know about the automatic signal placing, and it's useful. For "maximum fine-grained-ness" of pathing in a jam a signal every tile is useful, but it looks s***. I guess it's then right now just an aesthetics issue.

But once you have the meta information that on a certain part of the track you have an assigned "one-way-semantics", you could also think about how trains with realistic acceleration and braking could trail each other more closely. That would require from there a deeper integration with path finding. Looks like there is no patch out there in this direction currently.
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odisseus
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Re: one-way rails and "implicit" signals

Post by odisseus »

I don't understand your problem either.

If you just don't like the looks of the signals, use one of the add-ons that change their appearance — for example, "German Signals".

If you experience jams caused by braking trains, the most likely cause is inconsistent size of signal gaps (e.g. around bridges). See the articles at the main wiki and the openttdcoop wiki. This problem would not exist if it were possible to place signals on bridges, and this is probably the real purpose of the "implicit signals" patch that you mentioned. Placing "implicit" signals where normal signals can be placed doesn't make any sense at all.

I'm not sure whether the pathfinder uses the concept of a one-way track. However, you can effectively mark a one-way track by placing one-way signals on it (which is indeed what most players do most of the time), and the pathfinder was just fine with these tracks.
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jfs
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Re: one-way rails and "implicit" signals

Post by jfs »

If train B is following train A, and you want train B to begin accelerating (almost) as soon as train A begins accelerating, then what you want is a moving block system. I think it's unlikely that will ever happen in OTTD.
PointLuck
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Re: one-way rails and "implicit" signals

Post by PointLuck »

jfs wrote: 14 Jun 2021 06:32 If train B is following train A, and you want train B to begin accelerating (almost) as soon as train A begins accelerating, then what you want is a moving block system. I think it's unlikely that will ever happen in OTTD.
Ah cool that's what I was thinking of yes.

Alright then, thanks for the replies everyone.
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