An Infuriating Experience

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Baldy's Boss
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An Infuriating Experience

Post by Baldy's Boss »

I've taken the Tuhaven & Badburg game (start year 1880) into the 1950s...in the latter part of 1951 I was looking for unserved industries and saw one of the more productive unserved iron mines.At a seemingly appropriate distance was a steel mill,but it had announced imminent closure.
I looked further afield and saw another steel mill up past it that was near a city I already offered passenger service and which had given me an Outstanding reputation.
The iron ore mine was near a factory,and I figured I could put a station between them that served both...send ore trains up to the steel mill,bring steel back to the factory,and send goods up to the city.
In August 1951 I built the 3x7 station for ore and goods loading and steel delivery.I set about all the bridge and tunnel building and landscaping necessary and as the route went through a rarther productive farm set up junctions so that grain and livestock could also be delivered to the factory to provide more goods traffic.In October 1951 I built the 2x7 ore delivery/steel loading station by the steel mill and the 1x7 goods delivery station (right in front of a bank,but I didn't have a partner station for Valuables anywhere).

Then I set to ordering trains...wound up getting some rather high-powered engines to keep speed up on the line,two Challengers,a Big Boy,a Northern.

And it was in April 1952 that the first ore delivery train pulled in to its destination alongside the steel train...and I noticed the steel mill wasn't there any more!...it had closed in January as the train to the station I'd built next to it months before was finishing loading at the mine!...don't these customers get the idea that someone is investing heavily in serving them and decide against closure?(I'd missed the announcement as I was too busy doing what would make it unnecessary).

Having established that there were some difficulties reusing the exact site,I went back to my last deliberate save in February and funded a new steel mill (on a site I had to landscape right near the station) in time to take the delivery.But this cost a LOT.

Do industries you funded feel any more beholden to you than ones you didn't?
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odisseus
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by odisseus »

This is just another aspect of the game. Industries that aren't serviced eventually close down; if you don't pay attention, you may find out that you have spent lots of time and money onto a railway into nowhere.

However, the industry won't close if you provide any kind of service. For example, you can keep a steel mill alive by building a truck route between it and a nearby ore mine. The route probably won't bring you a lot of income, but it will ensure that the steel mill is still there when your ore trains start arriving.
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jfs
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by jfs »

Industries don't remember who funded them, or even whether they were funded by a player of created automatically.
However, secondary industries also live for a minimum of 5 years, but after that they have a risk of closing if they don't receive service.
Baldy's Boss
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Baldy's Boss »

By way of comparison,that steel mill being funded in 1952 cost about what I paid in 1965 (with inflation on) to electrify my entire rail system (I opted to do it all at once,though the Big Boys' dropping reliability on the route mentioned in this thread was what provoked it).
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Taschi »

Industries are such a massive money making machine that the game would be pointless if you could just spam them wherever you want.
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by jgf »

It is highly irritating when an industry announces imminent closure after you've build a terminal, sometimes even after you've starting transporting goods. I would prefer the closure be canceled if you transport goods to/from that industry before the closure date.
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Baldy's Boss »

jgf wrote: 30 Apr 2021 17:18 It is highly irritating when an industry announces imminent closure after you've build a terminal, sometimes even after you've starting transporting goods. I would prefer the closure be canceled if you transport goods to/from that industry before the closure date.
In this case the new station had been built next to the steel mill,and a train with orders to that station was loading.Management of the industry should be aware that stuff is coming!
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Eddi »

how would they be aware of that? did you send them a message?
Baldy's Boss
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Baldy's Boss »

Eddi wrote: 01 May 2021 16:47 how would they be aware of that? did you send them a message?
With all the construction right next to their steel mill of a station dedicated to delivering it supplies and taking its product,you'd think they would be in touch.

I know,you probably delight in delivering coal from halfway across the continent to powerplants that don't tell you that if you don't just bore a tunnel through the adjacent mountain to the mine just on the other side,they'll find another supplier.But I believe in communication.
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Baldy's Boss »

An only somewhat less infuriating experience,of course,is when you look through the world industry list,find a highly productive 0% transported site,do the construction to route its product to a consumer at a useful distance...and along the way random fluctuation massively cuts the output and with it your return on investment before your service actually starts.
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Taschi »

Baldy's Boss wrote: 29 May 2021 17:45 An only somewhat less infuriating experience,of course,is when you look through the world industry list,find a highly productive 0% transported site,do the construction to route its product to a consumer at a useful distance...and along the way random fluctuation massively cuts the output and with it your return on investment before your service actually starts.
Yes, OpenTTD should be more like real life, where companies never have to deal with random events from outside their sphere of influence.
audigex
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by audigex »

I mean, it's a game, not real life...

I've often thought that it would be nice if the game extended the minimum lifespan of an industry for a further 5 years (from the current in-game date) after the player builds a station next to the industry. Make it a one-off so you can't just perpetually keep them alive, and that would remove the annoying "the industry disappears just before your train arrives) situation
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by LaChupacabra »

Baldy's Boss wrote: 29 May 2021 17:45 An only somewhat less infuriating experience,of course,is when you look through the world industry list,find a highly productive 0% transported site,do the construction to route its product to a consumer at a useful distance...and along the way random fluctuation massively cuts the output and with it your return on investment before your service actually starts.
Most likely it is not a question of random production fluctuations - these are small and don't amount to more than +/- 20%. The point is that new enterprises, shortly after being established, have a double level of production for the first month. Overall, however, I agree that this is misleading and can be a bit frustrating.
For the future, if you see a enterprise that has a particularly attractive level of production, wait a month to make sure it's not because it's just established. ;)
audigex wrote: 03 Jun 2021 03:01 I've often thought that it would be nice if the game extended the minimum lifespan of an industry for a further 5 years (from the current in-game date) after the player builds a station next to the industry. Make it a one-off so you can't just perpetually keep them alive, and that would remove the annoying "the industry disappears just before your train arrives) situation
This solution would not be bad. I don't know if it would be easy to find a station near the enterprise. If it's not complicated, a game could check before announcing closure:
- presence of stations near the enterprise (regardless of whether they are served or not)
- the date of construction of these stations
If there is a station less than 5 years old nearby, the shutdown mechanism of the company would be postponed by one year. After one year, if the enterprise is still not serviced, the game would check the station construction dates again. If the stations were more than 5 years old, the enterprise would close. In this case, player could protect the enterprise from closure for an extended or even unlimited time. I don't see anything wrong with that. The disadvantage of this solution would be a hidden mechanism - most players wouldn't know about it, although the fact that enterprises wouldn't disappear immediately after building the station would be a big improvement compared to how it looks like today.

Another solution would be to add a closing risk period that would be announced one or two years before the closure is announced. If a player provided any resources during this time, the threat would be canceled. Information about the risk of closing should appear in the enterprise window.
Window of industry at risk of closure v1.4.png
Window of industry at risk of closure v1.4.png (29.92 KiB) Viewed 2289 times
Yes, I have already written about this solution (here). :)

An additional solution could be the addition of a enterprise management window that would be the equivalent of local authorities in the case of a city. There, one of the available options would be to purchase a enterprise protection against closure.
Window of Industry menagement v1.0.png
Window of Industry menagement v1.0.png (6.01 KiB) Viewed 2289 times
I am sorry for may English. I know is bed.
Wahazar
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Wahazar »

Solution (not implemented but desired): buy shares of such industry, it would not bankrupt then (also funding new makes you shareholder).
Baldy's Boss
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Baldy's Boss »

These are interesting ideas,of course...being able to control other industries provides a use for one's cash pile but the game would have to take account of the costs and income of the industries?
Stations have their most recent modification date recorded as their construction date so one could just add a tile to a station to keep the industry open if that were the criterion?
Of course the steel mill that precipitated this thread,as I said,shut down as a train with orders to the adjacent station was loading.

I wouldn't mind having real geology underlying maps...that is to say there would be some areas that oil wells or coal or iron mines would work well,moderately,or poorly,and some areas farms or forests would have better or worse luck...and these would be discovered by experience.
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Eddi »

Baldy's Boss wrote: 03 Jun 2021 22:56 but the game would have to take account of the costs and income of the industries?
no. this is not a business simulation.

not everything has to be simulated.
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Baldy's Boss »

Eddi wrote: 04 Jun 2021 10:55
Baldy's Boss wrote: 03 Jun 2021 22:56 but the game would have to take account of the costs and income of the industries?
no. this is not a business simulation.

not everything has to be simulated.
OpenTTD is generally considered "a business simulation game"...how else would you categorize it?
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Re: An Infuriating Experience

Post by Eddi »

a traffic management game with a sprinkle of business on top.
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