Gwyd wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021 22:58
I can see why this change would be made, but imo the options for flat and very flat should just be greyed out for sub-arctic if this is the change that is intended to be made.
If someone wants a proper flat map you can still go do it, and it's not like other options don't get greyed out sometimes too.
I just think it's a little confusing if changing a setting can make no change at all to the output
Just some background information for you, "the fix" that started this "conversation" has nothing to do with limiting what kind of maps can be generated. There was a rather large bug in the terrain generator that made it nearly impossible to make arctic maps how they were meant: high difference in altitude, both sea-level as above the snowline. This meant that most maps you could generate on default settings, were just not in the spirit of the climate, and generated errors about industries not being able to be placed. Even on Mountainous, the industry errors happens frequently, which was rather silly. Only Alpinist worked, ish. This is far from optimal for 90% of the players. For s*** and giggles, start 1.10.3 and try for yourself. You might be surprised by how bad it was ..
I cannot believe we didn't fix this years ago, honestly
A few suggestions were evaluated to address the issue. But in the end, only being able to select the hilliest terrain type for a climate to generate correctly, is of course silly. As it turns out, the terrain generator was just completely borked when it came to both arctic and sub-tropical. Both did not consider some key details, always generating a much flatter map than they ever should for those to be playable by most of our players.
The main problem in this thread is that things are misrepresented a lot, as someone disagrees with the choices made. And that people disagree with our choices, that is fine. That happens a lot; for us the trick is always to filter the focal part of our community, which is not 99% of our player base, from what most people would experience. That is why I already called this thread rather absurd; on one hand we have someone yelling really loud to get attention, on the other hand we have people throwing wood on the fire for no clear reason, and we have people who saw someone else with a pitchfork in hand, and decided to join the fun
That is not constructive to me, and not helping the game in the slightest. So, we have to reset this thread and be constructive. What was happening, what is going on, is there anything wrong, and does anything need fixing. I don't mind having this conversation, but in the tone this is done by a select few, is just not useful. And to be clear, I am not refer to you Gwyd, I just liked your reply most out of all of these, as you are clearly interested in what is going on, but you base your information on a misrepresentation, if I understand you correctly
To come back to your suggestion, I tried disabling those two terrain types for arctic; but remember I already mentioned earlier, as it turns out, I had to disable 4. That become rather silly. Additionally, it also makes the whole interface even worse than it already is. Switching between climates becomes awkward at best. In the end, I took a step back and was like: as a new player, what would I expect. Well, arctic is a hilly climate. So what does "very flat" mean in this context? An elevation of 0? Well, I kinda disagree .. it would be "very flat mountains" .. is it realistic to expect an elevation of 0? I think not
So in the end I opted to keep the GUI for what it is, till we redesign it some day, making "very flat" slightly less (but still really) flat. Matter of choices , and balancing needs
In the mean time I was fully aware it was still possible to make "0 elevation" maps. Just put the snowline height really low, and if you want to, the max height, and tada!
So honestly, I am rather puzzled about all this drama being caused and in the way it is done .. "storm in een glas water", how we say in Dutch. "storm in a teacup", searching tells me is the correct translation
Does this make a bit sense to you? Do you still think I made the wrong call? (honest question; feel free to be blunt. I am fully open to constructive conversations
). While forming your own opinion, please test 1.10.3 and 1.11.0-beta1 to see the difference yourself; it might surprise you
Can I give you one piece of advise? I gave this to you before, but: calm down. You are very aggressive, which only makes other people react in an aggressive way. Please try to be constructive. But again, this is not the first time I am asking you this
Either way, please make sure you are using default settings. You say you do, but your image shows you are not
In 1.11 the default snowline height changed to 10 (this was part of the same change as changing the terrain generator). This will fix a lot of weirdness going on in the default (!) map generation. When you start to change a lot of values of course, results may vary. But that is just a fact of life
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.