Transport Tycoon Forums

The place to talk about Transport Tycoon
It is currently Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:45 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:08 pm 
Offline
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:23 pm
Posts: 185
I find it mystifying that trains arriving at grand terminal stations lock onto a platform to which their paths are fouled by another train instead of easily sidestepping to another free platform to which their paths aren't fouled. With path reservations always switched on there seems to be no difference at when the fouling departures present themselves, for arriving trains are adamantly locked onto their platforms. Might somebody please explain the mechanism of this, please, as I wish to iron out any wrinkle in anticipation of my termini become crazily saturated (rebuilding's bothersome)? Knowing when trains lock onto platforms might be especially helpful! Through stations seldom present such stubborness..I wonder if pointless signals at the stub ends of the termini would solve this mystery.

Image
Arrival is deadset on platform right in front of it.


Attachments:
File comment: Arrival is deadset on platform right in front of it.
Anglo Anglers, 1st Jan 1981.png [240.15 KiB]
Not downloaded yet
Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:12 pm 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:14 am
Posts: 1620
Location: Gouda, the Netherlands
Well, going straight forward is the best route, so it goes for that platform. Now, if you were to add a couple of bridges and tunnels to that switch-yard from hell, it would probably increase efficiency quite a lot.

Another solution could be to add a bunch of waypoints in front of the desired platforms and give the trains orders for the desired one.

That being said, I don't know for how many trains this things is intended, but it's not very efficient as trains have no means to cross one another. So, you'll always end up with trains waiting for one another.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:58 pm 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 1643
Location: The Netherlands
2 possible solutions (however its always difficult with these kind of switchyards in front of terminus-stations):
- Place the 2-way path signals at the start of the switchyard (rather than in front of the station) and see what happens then.
- Make (a couple of) outgoing tracks on the far side of the station that you then later merge with your main outgoing track, then (hopefully) some outgoing trains wont have to cross the entire switchyard to get out.

_________________
Projects: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57266
Screenshots: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=56959

Winner of the following screenshot competitions:
sep 2012, jan 2013, apr 2013, aug 2013, mar 2014, mar 2016
All my work is released under GPL-license (either V2 or V3), if not clearly stated otherwise.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:04 pm 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:51 am
Posts: 5560
Location: East Coast MainLine
If it's a terminus and you have path signals coming into the station throat, you don't need them on the platforms.

You can probably simplify that layout somewhat too!

_________________
Soccer Mad Boffins
Watch my YouTube Channel


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:17 pm 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 2434
Location: Virgo Supercluster
Still strange. What matters are pathfinder penalties. I tried replicating this ... and with all paths having all those crossings it makes them fairly equal, so the trains are happy to pick free platforms.

Wrong track tile in the station or something?


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:04 am 
Offline
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:23 pm
Posts: 185
Thank you! A linked screen capture video and an attached screenshot each lodged at the bottom of my reply here.

Pyoro wrote:
Still strange. What matters are pathfinder penalties. I tried replicating this ... and with all paths having all those crossings it makes them fairly equal, so the trains are happy to pick free platforms.

Wrong track tile in the station or something?

The far end of the termini are station tiles somewhat fashioned into buffers (1.25 of video)..it's these that I wonder whether supplanting with signalled regular track might be worthwhile.

Kevo00 wrote:
If it's a terminus and you have path signals coming into the station throat, you don't need them on the platforms.

You can probably simplify that layout somewhat too!

I've never succeeded at combining path with that other type (name?) of signal (my trains would more often get lost than not proceed period)!

Quast65 wrote:
2 possible solutions (however its always difficult with these kind of switchyards in front of terminus-stations):
- Place the 2-way path signals at the start of the switchyard (rather than in front of the station) and see what happens then.
- Make (a couple of) outgoing tracks on the far side of the station that you then later merge with your main outgoing track, then (hopefully) some outgoing trains wont have to cross the entire switchyard to get out.

My 2nd and last (6th) videographed termini themselves have less unwieldy switchyards to them. Depot activity is what messes with my PAX timetabling more than anything else, hence there predominantly being in trios or the 2 and 3 sets of pairs for those 2nd and last stations..entries and exits unnecessarily fouling other traffic is mightily intolerable for me, hence their being in abundance, each with correspondingly long arrival and departure tracks.

Expresso wrote:
So, you'll always end up with trains waiting for one another.

That'll never bother me; the prospect of their not pursuing the free stabling, however, does irk me. But now 50 years later with comparably busier traffic, waiting arrivals do now indeed behave less choosily! Their inflexibility earlier on signified to me inherent riskiness.

https://youtu.be/LXLrI2lhGio



Attachments:
Anglo Anglers, 1st Apr 2031.png [4.24 MiB]
Not downloaded yet
Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:19 am 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:12 pm
Posts: 7026
Location: Adwick-Le-Street.
You have 6 lines which trains arrive on but only 3 to depart on so automatically you're going to create congestion. Add that to the way your departure lines are all over to one side of your station and you're creating conflicting movements as every departing train has to cross all your arrival lines. Instead of 6 "in" to 3 "out" arrange your tracks as in, out, in, out, in, out etc etc. You'll massively reduce conflicting movements and you can rearrange your tracks further away from your main station.
By using less track and point work you can restrict the number of platforms any one line can access which will also allow less conflicts. Currently it just looks horrible.

_________________
|||| My OTTD/TTDP pics ||||Currently slighty obsessed with getting Platinum Trophies||||Retired moderator||||


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:53 pm 
Offline
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:23 pm
Posts: 185
heh heh..you gotta admit that setting space aside at facilitating cumbersome dépôt manœuvres is indeed mightily rare out there in dem ottdlands, eh.. .. . . I suspect the appearance of compensatory junctions beyond termini throats would displease me were I to alternate entrances and exits out of my stations. There's plenty of slack in my timetabling to accommodate throat holdups.

Just to be clear, it's the unyielding lock onto a fouled although free platform instead of advancing onto an unfettered adjacent bay that I'm querying here ("mechanism").


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:52 pm 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:12 pm
Posts: 7026
Location: Adwick-Le-Street.
Are you using some sort of translator?

_________________
|||| My OTTD/TTDP pics ||||Currently slighty obsessed with getting Platinum Trophies||||Retired moderator||||


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:47 am 
Offline
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:23 pm
Posts: 185
oo la..who must've tamed you, eh.. .. . .


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:47 am 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:12 pm
Posts: 7026
Location: Adwick-Le-Street.
trainrover wrote:
oo la..who must've tamed you, eh.. .. . .

Er…. what?

_________________
|||| My OTTD/TTDP pics ||||Currently slighty obsessed with getting Platinum Trophies||||Retired moderator||||


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:58 pm 
Offline
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:23 pm
Posts: 185
Adieu, bonhomme.. .. . .


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:49 pm 
Offline
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:23 pm
Posts: 185
I've discovered departing trains also locking onto tracks from one of my termini. A brief about the fussy trains follows the following video of them that I recorded.

https://youtu.be/pckUXrPya0I



....................T1
........................T2
P1........................T3
....P2........................T4
........P3........................T5
............P4........................T6
................P5........................T7
....................P6........................T8
........................P7........................T9
............................P8
................................P9

Ignoring all those dots in the schematic above here, Platforms 1 through 9 are all dead-end platforms. Tracks 1 through 3 are exit tracks. Tracks 4, 5 and 7 are unobstructed arrival tracks; Tracks 6, 8 and 9 are also arrival tracks although served by off-screen train dépôts.

After its 2-minute-long wait (cropped), the P9 train has the opportunity to advance to T3, but instead waits until its path toward T2 is freed. Neither train at P5 or P7 advances toward T1 while the P9'er is proceeding toward T2. Only when the signal block along T3 becomes clear does the P7 departure advance to it; after a few seconds, the P5 train finally goes to T1, which had been quite accessible to either train throughout P9er's manœuvre through the 'switchyard'.

Usually, the comings are goings out of my overly-redundant termini are rewardingly fluid. Anomalies such as the scenario recorded here puzzle me. Any substantially explanatory feedback would be much appreciated.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000-2019 phpBB Limited

Copyright © Owen Rudge/The Transport Tycoon Forums 2001-2019.
Hosted by Zernebok Hosting.