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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 12:51 pm 
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I'm new here and I read the openttd introduction thread with the concerns raised there. What I'd like to know is how it stands legally at the moment. To get the game running I had to download ttd from one of the links posted on this forum and copy a few files from the original game. While the project is open source, apparently it requires files from the original game, hence that probably disqualifies it for distribution with distros and such, am I right?

So is there a plan to make that requirement redundant, is that possible/practical to do? Ie. are we to expect that openttd will in the future qualify for free redistribution as other GLP software?

Ps. I've been playing it for about a day and I'm really impressed, it's a perfect duplicate from what I can tell, along with a couple improvements from original tt which is what I played in the past. Great effort and much appreciated!!


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 1:06 pm 
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I think it would not be very strictly legal.
Since the base code used in OTTD is actually referenced from the assembly of the original game (don't tell me OTTD is totally written from nothing, at least the grf file model is reserve-engineered).
The core part of the game is already covered by the licence of the game, so it would be a legal issue.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 3:40 pm 
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OpenTTD in the future, hopefully near future, will be completely independent.

Already now a new graphics format is devised, and hopefully soon new graphics will be added so that you won't need the TTDLX graphics. Of course it will be possible to use the old graphics for people that have bought the original TTDLX and would like to play with the old style graphics.

Quote:
don't tell me OTTD is totally written from nothing, at least the grf file model is reserve-engineered


How do you think TTDPatch figured out the GRF file system? Did they just look very closely how it works and then implemented it themselves? No, of course not. Would that mean that all custom-made graphics are in copyright violation? Interesting concept ;0

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 4:16 pm 
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Darkvater wrote:
Would that mean that all custom-made graphics are in copyright violation? Interesting concept ;0

No. TTDPatch isn't, OpenTTD is. We've had this discussion before, case closed. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 4:39 pm 
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ChrisCF wrote:
Darkvater wrote:
Would that mean that all custom-made graphics are in copyright violation? Interesting concept ;0

No. TTDPatch isn't, OpenTTD is. We've had this discussion before, case closed. :roll:

I was just talking about the grf system...but am happy to not further elaborate on this :)

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 5:01 pm 
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Darkvater wrote:
Already now a new graphics format is devised, and hopefully soon new graphics will be added so that you won't need the TTDLX graphics. Of course it will be possible to use the old graphics for people that have bought the original TTDLX and would like to play with the old style graphics.


Alright, good news :) I thought I would take a stab at writing a gentoo ebuild for it once it's legit considering how easy it was to install.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 5:33 pm 
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Darkvater wrote:
I was just talking about the grf system...but am happy to not further elaborate on this :)

The result is still the same. TTDPatch uses the existing system, and works around it for the advanced features. OpenTTD so far has reverse-engineered it and copied it (so far).


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 10:55 am 
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numerodix wrote:
Alright, good news :) I thought I would take a stab at writing a gentoo ebuild for it once it's legit considering how easy it was to install.

Hm, should still be possible.. Just check if the files are in a certain directory, if they aren't, the emerge fails and tells the user to place the needed files there. Then he can emerge it again and it can install. Kind of the way you have to install the Sun Java package... Just an idea, I have no idea how to actually do this. :)


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 12:33 pm 
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Wuntvor wrote:
Hm, should still be possible.. Just check if the files are in a certain directory, if they aren't, the emerge fails and tells the user to place the needed files there. Then he can emerge it again and it can install. Kind of the way you have to install the Sun Java package... Just an idea, I have no idea how to actually do this. :)


That's a good idea, thanks! Actually I have no idea how it's done myself but I thought I would finally find out. :)


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 7:16 am 
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ChrisCF wrote:
Darkvater wrote:
I was just talking about the grf system...but am happy to not further elaborate on this :)

The result is still the same. TTDPatch uses the existing system, and works around it for the advanced features. OpenTTD so far has reverse-engineered it and copied it (so far).

Furthermore, the "way" how the game operates is also copyrighted.
Until the engine is totally written, there is no chance to be a independent game.


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 3:38 pm 
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School wrote:
ChrisCF wrote:
Darkvater wrote:
I was just talking about the grf system...but am happy to not further elaborate on this :)

The result is still the same. TTDPatch uses the existing system, and works around it for the advanced features. OpenTTD so far has reverse-engineered it and copied it (so far).

Furthermore, the "way" how the game operates is also copyrighted.
Until the engine is totally written, there is no chance to be a independent game.


I sincerely doubt that the routefinding, tracklaying, etc, routines have been individually copyrighted by Chris Sawyer/Hasbro/Atari. Technically possible, but there's that little thing called prior art.

If you tried to make a game that loaded up a new commerical game's datafiles and played them, then the company would have the right to come down on you like a ton of bricks - and they would. However, for something 7 (or so) years old? Naah, who's going to bother?


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:33 pm 
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numerodix wrote:
I'm new here and I read the openttd introduction thread with the concerns raised there. What I'd like to know is how it stands legally at the moment. To get the game running I had to download ttd from one of the links posted on this forum and copy a few files from the original game. While the project is open source, apparently it requires files from the original game


The fact that you downloaded the game just to play OpenTTD makes it illegal for you.
I'm not certain about other concerns about legality.

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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:26 am 
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DjArcas wrote:
School wrote:
Furthermore, the "way" how the game operates is also copyrighted.
Until the engine is totally written, there is no chance to be a independent game.


I sincerely doubt that the routefinding, tracklaying, etc, routines have been individually copyrighted by Chris Sawyer/Hasbro/Atari. Technically possible, but there's that little thing called prior art.


You two are now confusing patents and copyrights. You cannot copyright a "way" of doing things and there's nothing like prior art in the (c) world. And I doubt any patents were issued in relation with TTD and even if they did, we in Europe don't care (yet).

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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 5:48 pm 
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pasky wrote:
DjArcas wrote:
I sincerely doubt that the routefinding, tracklaying, etc, routines have been individually copyrighted by Chris Sawyer/Hasbro/Atari. Technically possible, but there's that little thing called prior art.


You two are now confusing patents and copyrights. You cannot copyright a "way" of doing things and there's nothing like prior art in the (c) world. And I doubt any patents were issued in relation with TTD and even if they did, we in Europe don't care (yet).
Yes I mean patents. I don't think they file patents of TTD.


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