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 Post subject: Will OpenTTD go global?
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2004 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:02 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Will OpenTTD go global? What's oracle and coca-cola got in common with OpenTTD? Read the log and see for yourself who's sane, and who's not :twisted:

may 02 13:39:36 <pasky> About GRF, I want to get rid of them. I see no reason why couldn't we just use a subdirectory containing some rc file and bunch of images.
may 02 13:39:44 <pasky> It's one of my high priority goals :).
may 02 13:40:00 * epsilon thinks he's got the transparent bridges by the ballz
may 02 13:40:07 <MiHaMiX> :D
may 02 13:40:23 <Darkvater> pasky: bunch of images in a container, like cab file or something
may 02 13:40:29 <pasky> Darkvater: Why?
may 02 13:40:33 <Darkvater> I hate it when a program installs a zillio files on my pc
may 02 13:40:37 <pasky> Darkvater: Why to add another level of indirection?
may 02 13:40:41 <pasky> Darkvater: Do you? Why?
may 02 13:40:51 <Darkvater> it's so amateurisch
may 02 13:41:02 <pasky> Darkvater: Er, and some rational argument...? :)
may 02 13:41:05 <Darkvater> I think it's stupid
may 02 13:41:16 <epsilon> a million files sounds bad
may 02 13:41:16 <Darkvater> not much else I can say about it :)
may 02 13:41:26 <Darkvater> zillion ;)
may 02 13:41:29 <epsilon> uh
may 02 13:41:37 <epsilon> for me a million is suffice to say it sounds bad
may 02 13:41:42 <Darkvater> hehe
may 02 13:41:44 <epsilon> *sufficient
may 02 13:42:10 <MiHaMiX> pasky: some container won't be bad. However, i support your ideas :)
may 02 13:42:20 <pasky> Well we could support .grf, plain files and something else all at once if the code around that is/will be modular enough.
may 02 13:42:42 <Darkvater> that's just confusing
may 02 13:42:54 <pasky> Subdir is excellent for developing new graphics but for distribution .grfs or .cab or whatever would be more practical.
may 02 13:43:15 <Darkvater> supporting .grf and something else we agree on is the only thing needed though
may 02 13:43:20 <Darkvater> pasky: I agree with that
may 02 13:43:26 <epsilon> many files = lots of diskapce used
may 02 13:43:32 <epsilon> *diskspace
may 02 13:43:36 <pasky> epsilon: Depends on your filesystem :).
may 02 13:43:37 <MiHaMiX> pasky: if we store the images in a tarfile, that won't cause too big overhead, but doesn't pollute the fs so much
may 02 13:43:43 <epsilon> pasky: yes and that is enough
may 02 13:43:44 <pasky> epsilon: But basically yes.
may 02 13:43:56 <MiHaMiX> pasky: lot of files = lot of inodes
may 02 13:43:57 <epsilon> dirs with lots of files in them read slower
may 02 13:44:06 <Darkvater> tar files are ok
may 02 13:44:10 <epsilon> lots of inodes = lots of trouble
may 02 13:44:20 <Darkvater> lots of trouble = not a happy epsilon
may 02 13:44:21 <pasky> MiHaMiX: I thought about a tarfile but it's not so effective as a GRF, I suppose. I didn't have a closer look at GRF yet.
may 02 13:44:36 <epsilon> Darkvater: not a happy epsilon = openttd loses popularity
may 02 13:44:37 <pasky> Well as long as we have a simple UNIX CLI tool for GRF manipulation there's no reason why not to use them, after all.
may 02 13:44:56 <Darkvater> openttd loses popularity = Darkvater not happy
may 02 13:45:02 <epsilon> openttd loses popularity = devteam commits harakiri
may 02 13:45:05 <Darkvater> and we definitely DON'T want that now, do we?
may 02 13:45:07 <MiHaMiX> pasky: i just said the tar format, since it's quite simple. of course, we should use some index to make it read faster
may 02 13:45:10 <epsilon> no we don't
may 02 13:45:26 <epsilon> as you can clearly see many files are a way to kill the devteam :)
may 02 13:45:30 <pasky> MiHaMiX: Well I'd like see how you index a tar file... :)
may 02 13:46:02 <Darkvater> I think a grf file is just simply an indexed datafile though
may 02 13:46:04 <pasky> Unless you do something weird, hackish and complicated enough that it's simpler to just stick with .GRF :).

may 02 13:46:20 <Darkvater> like blizzard's mpq
may 02 13:46:44 <MiHaMiX> pasky: i tell you again, i just mentioned tar since it's a real simple format. I don't think we should use tar really, since it doesn't support indexing, which is needed by us, since indexing make faster to find the specific graphics.
may 02 13:46:53 <Darkvater> the only extra thing that a grf file can do is encode actions for graphics, like the trainsets with NFO editor
may 02 13:47:15 <MiHaMiX> pasky: so we should either use an own format for storing or find a suitable one.
may 02 13:47:40 <epsilon> use a database then it's GREAT for indexing :> not so sure about usability though
may 02 13:47:47 <epsilon> select * from tiles where tiletype=rail;
may 02 13:47:49 <epsilon> :>
may 02 13:47:53 <pasky> duh.
may 02 13:47:55 <pasky> :)
may 02 13:48:16 <epsilon> update tiles set transparent=1 where tiletype=bridge
may 02 13:48:23 <epsilon> simple, clear, clean
may 02 13:48:32 <MiHaMiX> lol
may 02 13:48:35 <epsilon> hahaha
may 02 13:49:12 <Darkvater> yeah, let's install mysql with every copy of ottd
may 02 13:49:28 <MiHaMiX> lol
may 02 13:49:30 <epsilon> talk about bloated
may 02 13:49:31 <MiHaMiX> fsck
may 02 13:49:36 <MiHaMiX> why mysql? :)
may 02 13:49:39 <epsilon> oracle
may 02 13:49:42 <Vaily> yeah. oracle. :o
may 02 13:49:45 <Darkvater> hehe
may 02 13:49:46 <Vaily> epsilon :))
may 02 13:49:47 <MiHaMiX> use postgresql or oracle instead :D
may 02 13:49:48 <epsilon> "To run openttd 0.4.0 you need oracle"
may 02 13:49:49 <MiHaMiX> lol
may 02 13:49:57 <Darkvater> we also of course want cd-burning capabilities
may 02 13:49:59 <epsilon> oh, and some 2GB of RAM
may 02 13:50:09 <Darkvater> there has to be an option in ottd to be able to burn your savegames
may 02 13:50:15 <MiHaMiX> :DDDDDDDDDDDDD
may 02 13:50:18 <epsilon> Darkvater: yes, write your screenshots instantly to cd in kodak photocd format!
may 02 13:50:25 <MiHaMiX> lol
may 02 13:50:26 <Darkvater> yesh, yesh :)
may 02 13:50:29 <Darkvater> now we're talking
may 02 13:50:35 <epsilon> that's DEVELOPMENT
may 02 13:50:39 <Darkvater> how about speech recognition?
may 02 13:50:47 <epsilon> Darkvater: of course, that's for 0.4.1
may 02 13:50:49 <Darkvater> 'Train 1, move to Amsterdam'
may 02 13:51:06 <MiHaMiX> and place some banner in the game to support ourselves. eg. large shops shopwindows should have an advertisement fetched directly from the web :D
may 02 13:51:07 <Kjetil> Why don`t make an OS -- OpenTTDOS
may 02 13:51:07 <epsilon> 'train 5, wtf do you think you're doing right now?!'
may 02 13:51:17 <pasky> *I* for one think that OTTD should have an integrated web browser for browsing ttdforums and OTTD stuff.
may 02 13:51:26 <epsilon> make a plugin for "The Sims"
may 02 13:51:29 <Darkvater> we also want a fully functional stock-market, plugged into the AEX, NASDAQ etc.
may 02 13:51:34 <MiHaMiX> LOL :DDDDDDDD
may 02 13:52:00 <epsilon> we need to add a media player of course
may 02 13:52:06 <Darkvater> yes, definitely
may 02 13:52:14 <pasky> epsilon: We have a music player already ;-))).
may 02 13:52:24 <Darkvater> but we want to see video's too
may 02 13:52:34 <epsilon> pasky: well people don't wont some sucky midi music, they want their evanescence mp3 files blaring
may 02 13:52:35 <MiHaMiX> and you could order your food directly from the shops in ottd's towns :)
may 02 13:52:38 <Vaily> ottd included mplayer :)
may 02 13:52:43 <<< ConneX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
may 02 13:52:44 <Darkvater> haha
may 02 13:52:47 <epsilon> yeah you could order pizza
may 02 13:52:57 <epsilon> and have a little vehicle drive around and deliver it
may 02 13:53:05 <MiHaMiX> yes :D
may 02 13:53:07 <epsilon> then comes the time for marketing and gadgets
may 02 13:53:16 <epsilon> openttd t-shirts, cups, pens, keychains
may 02 13:53:23 <epsilon> TV ads
may 02 13:53:33 <Darkvater> :D
may 02 13:53:44 <Vaily> t-shirts? ah... real trucks and trains :))
may 02 13:54:18 <epsilon> "say this is the ploddyput choo choo 2004", 400hp
may 02 13:54:49 <epsilon> "mommy mommy can i have a ride! pretty please!"
may 02 13:54:51 <MiHaMiX> :D
may 02 13:54:53 <Vaily> order an own ottd train, it's only $2.000.000 now:)
may 02 13:54:59 <epsilon> then we need something like disney land
may 02 13:55:10 <epsilon> only in ttd toyland reality
may 02 13:55:14 <Vaily> lol
may 02 13:55:17 <epsilon> battery farms, cotton candy forests
may 02 13:55:28 <epsilon> man, that would rule
may 02 13:55:39 <epsilon> i'ev always wanted to go to a battery farm.
may 02 13:55:41 <Darkvater> we would of course require ottd users to pay a monthly fee to be able to play
may 02 13:55:41 <MiHaMiX> no. we need something like mental hospital, but NOW :DD
may 02 13:55:59 <epsilon> Darkvater: of course, none of that gpl bulls***. proper proprietary code
may 02 13:56:07 <Darkvater> yeah, f*** that
may 02 13:56:19 <Vaily> MiHaMiX we will build that too :)))
may 02 13:56:22 <Darkvater> eh, gotten carried away a bit
may 02 13:56:24 <MiHaMiX> Vaily: :DD
may 02 13:56:25 <epsilon> OpenTTD out in stores now! 34.99$ and it's yours
may 02 13:56:47 <epsilon> plus you get a bonus openttd cap
may 02 13:57:01 <Darkvater> and then in a really small print on the bottom 'monthly fee of 20$'
may 02 13:57:11 <RedMonkey> :))
may 02 13:57:32 <epsilon> :D
may 02 13:57:45 <epsilon> some online services and a websiet for gamers would be needed
may 02 13:58:11 <epsilon> and some colorful, colorful custom messages like 'p w n e d' or 'i is teh leet pawn0rr'
may 02 13:58:28 <epsilon> or 'ur company iz p w n d, biatch'
may 02 13:59:11 <Darkvater> ok, a serious question now: would it be possible to combine into a single, simple macro the checking of 1 bit or more bits based on numbers?
may 02 13:59:38 <Darkvater> right now, there's this macro: HASBIT(x,y) ((x) & (1 << (y)))
may 02 13:59:40 <epsilon> and then...... fast-paced multiplayer shootouts at stations or alongside of the tracks
may 02 13:59:50 <Darkvater> you give a number y = 4 and it checks if x has that bit set
may 02 14:00:05 <Darkvater> I would like to easily check if bits 4 and 7 are set
may 02 14:00:11 <epsilon> Darkvater: i thought we were talkign serious
may 02 14:00:12 <Darkvater> and have the same macro for both
may 02 14:00:20 * epsilon wants speech recognition and pizza delivery
may 02 14:00:31 <Darkvater> epsilon: well, we have to finish all these features first before we can sell it
may 02 14:00:49 <epsilon> oh i guess you have a point there... back to transparent bridges i go

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2004 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2003 6:45 pm
Posts: 3053
Location: Hong Kong
Okay, we have done some serious suggestions for a new and improved OpenTTD here. I'll summarize them below, and then we can discuss which ones to implement first:
  • <MiHaMiX>useage of postgresql or oracle. - Just imagine the endless possibilities, DEL TRAIN 1 FROM VEHICLES; UPDATE AIRPLANE SET ORDERS TO 'goto Town A'. Hopefully in 0.4.0 <epsilon> "To run openttd 0.4.0 you need oracle"
  • <Darkvater> cd-burning capabilities - Nothing to add to this. Don't you just hate to alt-tab out of your favorite program to some s*** Nero or something, when you can now stay in the OpenTTD environment and instantly burn and share your savegames?
  • <epsilon> write your screenshots instantly to cd in kodak photocd format! - There is no bigger joy than to show your magnificient networks to friends and family on a big screen television
  • <Darkvater> speech recognition? - A breakthrough in gameing. No more slow and boring control. With a word you control the whole world!
  • <MiHaMiX> banner in the game to support ourselves - We all need money to be able to live, so please click on the banners. Future versions may also include an automatic popupkiller, so keep your fingers crossed
  • <Kjetil> OpenTTDOS - Yes, nothing better than an integrated environment. You are looking for your documents? Take the train to 'My Documents', or even better, the airplane!
  • [b]<pasky> integrated web browser for browsing ttdforums and OTTD stuff. - It is very important to keep in touch with your friends and the developers. Just goto the nice world-icon on the topbar, and you get instant news about openTTD
  • <epsilon> a plugin for "The Sims" - Last, and this years most popular game cannot be unnoticed. Expect features like living your life as a train-driver while your wife takes the bus to Tritton
  • <Darkvater> fully functional stock-market, AEX, NASDAQ etc - A good game cannot exist without a sturdy financial managment system. For full realism, we will provide you with up-to-date data on the world's largest exchange offices
  • <epsilon> media player - Again, why leave openTTD while you can do anything in here? Watch the newest videos, music, or your friend's recorded openTTD replay instantly!
  • <MiHaMiX> order your food directly from the shops in ottd's towns - Need I say more? This is SERVICE!
  • <epsilon> openttd t-shirts, cups, pens, keychains, TV ads - [/i]With such popularity, you cannot ignore marketing. Buy the best wear now, and make your friends jealous my showing off your brand new cool openTTD t-shirt[/i]
  • <epsilon> disney land, only in toyland - PLan not yet worked out, but just imagine visiting a real life battery farm, or cotton candy forest! It will be the best days of your life
  • <Darkvater> a monthly fee to be able to play - Unfortunately some features will cost money.
  • <epsilon> OpenTTD out in stores now! 34.99$ and it's yours with bonus openTTD cap!! - 34.99$ and a bonus openTTD cap? No, wait! We are not crazy enough. Buy openTTD on the first 5 days on sale and you will not get 1, not 2, but 3 FREE openTTD CAPS!

TrueLight: "Did you bother to read any of the replies, or you just pressed 'Reply' and started typing?"
<@[R-Dk]FoRbiDDeN> "HELP, this litte arrow thing keeps following my mouse, and I can't make it go away."

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2004 1:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:35 pm
Posts: 2310
Location: Urope>Dutchland>Rotterdam
Hmm, my first commont in the openttd section is spam but i cant help to..

Call me.. Raptor ;)

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2004 7:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:24 am
Posts: 911
Location: Singapore but originally Moscow
Darkvater wrote:
[*]<MiHaMiX> banner in the game to support ourselves - We all need money to be able to live, so please click on the banners. Future versions may also include an automatic popupkiller, so keep your fingers crossed

Could we also have that cute little monkey by the name of Bonzi Buddy? Oh pleasy-pleasy please? :oops: :)

It would roll on your newsbar at the bottom and clap its hands when it is bored, talk to you, tell you which train is in trouble.. maybe it will be an advisor for Ottd? Think of possibilities! Helping the new players in need.. telling them how to connect towns.. how to make money.

Bonzy Buddy will surely make a world a better place. :wink:

OT: By FIREMARK: "Limitation disturbs me very sprites. Goes it throw out limitation?"
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 1:40 pm 
Transport Coordinator
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Darkvater wrote:
  • <MiHaMiX>useage of postgresql or oracle. - Just imagine the endless possibilities, DEL TRAIN 1 FROM VEHICLES; UPDATE AIRPLANE SET ORDERS TO 'goto Town A'. Hopefully in 0.4.0 <epsilon> "To run openttd 0.4.0 you need oracle"

Using a database isn't actually that bad an idea, although using postgres or oracle is. There are a number of small, embeddable databases. Like Metakit for example.

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