Will OpenTTD go global? What's oracle and coca-cola got in common with OpenTTD? Read the log and see for yourself who's sane, and who's not
may 02 13:39:36 <pasky> About GRF, I want to get rid of them. I see no reason why couldn't we just use a subdirectory containing some rc file and bunch of images.
may 02 13:39:44 <pasky> It's one of my high priority goals :).
may 02 13:40:00 * epsilon thinks he's got the transparent bridges by the ballz
may 02 13:40:07 <MiHaMiX> :D
may 02 13:40:23 <Darkvater> pasky: bunch of images in a container, like cab file or something
may 02 13:40:29 <pasky> Darkvater: Why?
may 02 13:40:33 <Darkvater> I hate it when a program installs a zillio files on my pc
may 02 13:40:37 <pasky> Darkvater: Why to add another level of indirection?
may 02 13:40:41 <pasky> Darkvater: Do you? Why?
may 02 13:40:51 <Darkvater> it's so amateurisch
may 02 13:41:02 <pasky> Darkvater: Er, and some rational argument...? :)
may 02 13:41:05 <Darkvater> I think it's stupid
may 02 13:41:16 <epsilon> a million files sounds bad
may 02 13:41:16 <Darkvater> not much else I can say about it :)
may 02 13:41:26 <Darkvater> zillion ;)
may 02 13:41:29 <epsilon> uh
may 02 13:41:37 <epsilon> for me a million is suffice to say it sounds bad
may 02 13:41:42 <Darkvater> hehe
may 02 13:41:44 <epsilon> *sufficient
may 02 13:42:10 <MiHaMiX> pasky: some container won't be bad. However, i support your ideas :)
may 02 13:42:20 <pasky> Well we could support .grf, plain files and something else all at once if the code around that is/will be modular enough.
may 02 13:42:42 <Darkvater> that's just confusing
may 02 13:42:54 <pasky> Subdir is excellent for developing new graphics but for distribution .grfs or .cab or whatever would be more practical.
may 02 13:43:15 <Darkvater> supporting .grf and something else we agree on is the only thing needed though
may 02 13:43:20 <Darkvater> pasky: I agree with that
may 02 13:43:26 <epsilon> many files = lots of diskapce used
may 02 13:43:32 <epsilon> *diskspace
may 02 13:43:36 <pasky> epsilon: Depends on your filesystem :).
may 02 13:43:37 <MiHaMiX> pasky: if we store the images in a tarfile, that won't cause too big overhead, but doesn't pollute the fs so much
may 02 13:43:43 <epsilon> pasky: yes and that is enough
may 02 13:43:44 <pasky> epsilon: But basically yes.
may 02 13:43:56 <MiHaMiX> pasky: lot of files = lot of inodes
may 02 13:43:57 <epsilon> dirs with lots of files in them read slower
may 02 13:44:06 <Darkvater> tar files are ok
may 02 13:44:10 <epsilon> lots of inodes = lots of trouble
may 02 13:44:20 <Darkvater> lots of trouble = not a happy epsilon
may 02 13:44:21 <pasky> MiHaMiX: I thought about a tarfile but it's not so effective as a GRF, I suppose. I didn't have a closer look at GRF yet.
may 02 13:44:36 <epsilon> Darkvater: not a happy epsilon = openttd loses popularity
may 02 13:44:37 <pasky> Well as long as we have a simple UNIX CLI tool for GRF manipulation there's no reason why not to use them, after all.
may 02 13:44:56 <Darkvater> openttd loses popularity = Darkvater not happy
may 02 13:45:02 <epsilon> openttd loses popularity = devteam commits harakiri
may 02 13:45:05 <Darkvater> and we definitely DON'T want that now, do we?
may 02 13:45:07 <MiHaMiX> pasky: i just said the tar format, since it's quite simple. of course, we should use some index to make it read faster
may 02 13:45:10 <epsilon> no we don't
may 02 13:45:26 <epsilon> as you can clearly see many files are a way to kill the devteam :)
may 02 13:45:30 <pasky> MiHaMiX: Well I'd like see how you index a tar file... :)
may 02 13:46:02 <Darkvater> I think a grf file is just simply an indexed datafile though
may 02 13:46:04 <pasky> Unless you do something weird, hackish and complicated enough that it's simpler to just stick with .GRF :).
may 02 13:46:20 <Darkvater> like blizzard's mpq
may 02 13:46:44 <MiHaMiX> pasky: i tell you again, i just mentioned tar since it's a real simple format. I don't think we should use tar really, since it doesn't support indexing, which is needed by us, since indexing make faster to find the specific graphics.
may 02 13:46:53 <Darkvater> the only extra thing that a grf file can do is encode actions for graphics, like the trainsets with NFO editor
may 02 13:47:15 <MiHaMiX> pasky: so we should either use an own format for storing or find a suitable one.
may 02 13:47:40 <epsilon> use a database then it's GREAT for indexing :> not so sure about usability though
may 02 13:47:47 <epsilon> select * from tiles where tiletype=rail;
may 02 13:47:49 <epsilon> :>
may 02 13:47:53 <pasky> duh.
may 02 13:47:55 <pasky> :)
may 02 13:48:16 <epsilon> update tiles set transparent=1 where tiletype=bridge
may 02 13:48:23 <epsilon> simple, clear, clean
may 02 13:48:32 <MiHaMiX> lol
may 02 13:48:35 <epsilon> hahaha
may 02 13:49:12 <Darkvater> yeah, let's install mysql with every copy of ottd
may 02 13:49:28 <MiHaMiX> lol
may 02 13:49:30 <epsilon> talk about bloated
may 02 13:49:31 <MiHaMiX> fsck
may 02 13:49:36 <MiHaMiX> why mysql? :)
may 02 13:49:39 <epsilon> oracle
may 02 13:49:42 <Vaily> yeah. oracle. :o
may 02 13:49:45 <Darkvater> hehe
may 02 13:49:46 <Vaily> epsilon :))
may 02 13:49:47 <MiHaMiX> use postgresql or oracle instead :D
may 02 13:49:48 <epsilon> "To run openttd 0.4.0 you need oracle"
may 02 13:49:49 <MiHaMiX> lol
may 02 13:49:57 <Darkvater> we also of course want cd-burning capabilities
may 02 13:49:59 <epsilon> oh, and some 2GB of RAM
may 02 13:50:09 <Darkvater> there has to be an option in ottd to be able to burn your savegames
may 02 13:50:15 <MiHaMiX> :DDDDDDDDDDDDD
may 02 13:50:18 <epsilon> Darkvater: yes, write your screenshots instantly to cd in kodak photocd format!
may 02 13:50:25 <MiHaMiX> lol
may 02 13:50:26 <Darkvater> yesh, yesh :)
may 02 13:50:29 <Darkvater> now we're talking
may 02 13:50:35 <epsilon> that's DEVELOPMENT
may 02 13:50:39 <Darkvater> how about speech recognition?
may 02 13:50:47 <epsilon> Darkvater: of course, that's for 0.4.1
may 02 13:50:49 <Darkvater> 'Train 1, move to Amsterdam'
may 02 13:51:06 <MiHaMiX> and place some banner in the game to support ourselves. eg. large shops shopwindows should have an advertisement fetched directly from the web :D
may 02 13:51:07 <Kjetil> Why don`t make an OS -- OpenTTDOS
may 02 13:51:07 <epsilon> 'train 5, wtf do you think you're doing right now?!'
may 02 13:51:17 <pasky> *I* for one think that OTTD should have an integrated web browser for browsing ttdforums and OTTD stuff.
may 02 13:51:26 <epsilon> make a plugin for "The Sims"
may 02 13:51:29 <Darkvater> we also want a fully functional stock-market, plugged into the AEX, NASDAQ etc.
may 02 13:51:34 <MiHaMiX> LOL :DDDDDDDD
may 02 13:52:00 <epsilon> we need to add a media player of course
may 02 13:52:06 <Darkvater> yes, definitely
may 02 13:52:14 <pasky> epsilon: We have a music player already ;-))).
may 02 13:52:24 <Darkvater> but we want to see video's too
may 02 13:52:34 <epsilon> pasky: well people don't wont some sucky midi music, they want their evanescence mp3 files blaring
may 02 13:52:35 <MiHaMiX> and you could order your food directly from the shops in ottd's towns :)
may 02 13:52:38 <Vaily> ottd included mplayer :)
may 02 13:52:43 <<< ConneX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
may 02 13:52:44 <Darkvater> haha
may 02 13:52:47 <epsilon> yeah you could order pizza
may 02 13:52:57 <epsilon> and have a little vehicle drive around and deliver it
may 02 13:53:05 <MiHaMiX> yes :D
may 02 13:53:07 <epsilon> then comes the time for marketing and gadgets
may 02 13:53:16 <epsilon> openttd t-shirts, cups, pens, keychains
may 02 13:53:23 <epsilon> TV ads
may 02 13:53:33 <Darkvater> :D
may 02 13:53:44 <Vaily> t-shirts? ah... real trucks and trains :))
may 02 13:54:18 <epsilon> "say this is the ploddyput choo choo 2004", 400hp
may 02 13:54:49 <epsilon> "mommy mommy can i have a ride! pretty please!"
may 02 13:54:51 <MiHaMiX> :D
may 02 13:54:53 <Vaily> order an own ottd train, it's only $2.000.000 now:)
may 02 13:54:59 <epsilon> then we need something like disney land
may 02 13:55:10 <epsilon> only in ttd toyland reality
may 02 13:55:14 <Vaily> lol
may 02 13:55:17 <epsilon> battery farms, cotton candy forests
may 02 13:55:28 <epsilon> man, that would rule
may 02 13:55:39 <epsilon> i'ev always wanted to go to a battery farm.
may 02 13:55:41 <Darkvater> we would of course require ottd users to pay a monthly fee to be able to play
may 02 13:55:41 <MiHaMiX> no. we need something like mental hospital, but NOW :DD
may 02 13:55:59 <epsilon> Darkvater: of course, none of that gpl bulls***. proper proprietary code
may 02 13:56:07 <Darkvater> yeah, f*** that
may 02 13:56:19 <Vaily> MiHaMiX we will build that too :)))
may 02 13:56:22 <Darkvater> eh, gotten carried away a bit
may 02 13:56:24 <MiHaMiX> Vaily: :DD
may 02 13:56:25 <epsilon> OpenTTD out in stores now! 34.99$ and it's yours
may 02 13:56:47 <epsilon> plus you get a bonus openttd cap
may 02 13:57:01 <Darkvater> and then in a really small print on the bottom 'monthly fee of 20$'
may 02 13:57:11 <RedMonkey> :))
may 02 13:57:32 <epsilon> :D
may 02 13:57:45 <epsilon> some online services and a websiet for gamers would be needed
may 02 13:58:11 <epsilon> and some colorful, colorful custom messages like 'p w n e d' or 'i is teh leet pawn0rr'
may 02 13:58:28 <epsilon> or 'ur company iz p w n d, biatch'
may 02 13:59:11 <Darkvater> ok, a serious question now: would it be possible to combine into a single, simple macro the checking of 1 bit or more bits based on numbers?
may 02 13:59:38 <Darkvater> right now, there's this macro: HASBIT(x,y) ((x) & (1 << (y)))
may 02 13:59:40 <epsilon> and then...... fast-paced multiplayer shootouts at stations or alongside of the tracks
may 02 13:59:50 <Darkvater> you give a number y = 4 and it checks if x has that bit set
may 02 14:00:05 <Darkvater> I would like to easily check if bits 4 and 7 are set
may 02 14:00:11 <epsilon> Darkvater: i thought we were talkign serious
may 02 14:00:12 <Darkvater> and have the same macro for both
may 02 14:00:20 * epsilon wants speech recognition and pizza delivery
may 02 14:00:31 <Darkvater> epsilon: well, we have to finish all these features first before we can sell it
may 02 14:00:49 <epsilon> oh i guess you have a point there... back to transparent bridges i go