OpenTTD on Steam

[HaydenRead]

Hi,
Just wondering if there would be any interest in OpenTTD being put onto Steam (I have recently assisted with getting Simutrans onto Steam).

Throwing this out there as an idea. Either I can load it onto Greenlight through my existing account that has been used for Simutrans, or someone else could load it into Greenlight if that option is preferred by users.

My understanding is that OpenTTD, with OpenGFX, OpenMSX, and OpenSFX are all GNU GPL2 so there should not be any issues with getting them onto Steam..

[Pyoro]

Has this changed?

[R2]

I would not recommend it. OpenTTD works fine as more-or-less "low-profile fan project". It is tolerated by Chris Sawyer / Microprose. That might change if it was moved to a commercial platform such as Steam, particularly since Chris Sawyer developed and released a smartphone/tablet version of TT. I would hate for OpenTTD to be shut down by a lawsuit...

[kamnet]

I would not recommend it. OpenTTD works fine as more-or-less "low-profile fan project". It is tolerated by Chris Sawyer / Microprose. That might change if it was moved to a commercial platform such as Steam, particularly since Chris Sawyer developed and released a smartphone/tablet version of TT. I would hate for OpenTTD to be shut down by a lawsuit...

If Sawyer ever had any intention of doing so, that point has long passed. It's not as if he is unaware of OpenTTD's existence, and it's not as if he's unaware that TT fans much prefer OpenTTD and TTDX to his modern remake.

And what would a lawsuit do, anyhow? He'd have to file suit in every country against each individual developer who has worked on the code. And since thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people already have the source code, it would be impossible to shut down distribution even if he did prevail. One person throwing it out on BitTorrent and Usenet and that's it, it will never die.

[HaydenRead]

Has this changed?

Steam cloud sync and the game itself can work with no changes to the code.
Changes to the code are only required for achievements, steam game matching, etc.
I will double check but I am pretty sure GPL allows dynamic loading of proprietary Dll's so long as the removal of the Dll does not break the application if any of those features were wanted.

I was also pondering contacting Microprose or whoever currently holds the license for TTD and seeing if they would mind making the data files freely available or available for a small fee (even tho they are not required with the open source alternatives listed above).

-----
Just checked, GPL allows dynamic linking to a proprietary DLL where it is call and forget (such as setting an Achievement (although fork and run an external command is prefered method under GPL2)), but not where there is a high level of interaction, such as the Steam game matching etc.

[kamnet]

I was also pondering contacting Microprose or whoever currently holds the license for TTD and seeing if they would mind making the data files freely available or available for a small fee (even tho they are not required with the open source alternatives listed above).

Chris Sawyer own all of the Transport Tycoon intellectual property, trademarks and copyrights.

[Chrill]

Yes, as kamnet stated, Mr. Sawyer himself is the owner of Transport Tycoon and its related files.

[HaydenRead]

I have been reading through a range of the previous threads in regards to Steam / Greenlight, and thought I would try to answer some of the questions / points raised.

• OpenTTD can go on Steam with no code changes at all, and support automatic updates and saved game sync. (Various other 'Steam Features' would require code changes if they were to be implemented, but there is no requirement to implement them).
• Source needs to be made available - can be listed as an option DLC, or included in a folder within the game directory
• Steam only vets the application prior to initial release, once released, there are no checks by Valve/Steam before the updates are pushed out, so for patching there would not need to be a delay been being released here and on Steam.
• There is a $100 fee to list on Greenlight - This is a once only fee to list as many games as you like, so I have no problem with listing OpenTTD under the same account as Simutrans is distributed under on Steam (or someone else can list the game on Greenlight if prefered)
• It should be done by devs so that updates occur in a timely manner - I have no problem if I list the game, of granting a number of devs access to upload updates to the game, or creating a Generic Account for updates to the game.
• Given the number of times getting OpenTTD on Steam has already been discussed, I imagine it will keep coming up...

If I have missed any queries, I would be happy to try and answer them...

I realize that given the license I could just take the application and list it, but prefer to have the support of a reasonable number of the current developers...

[BobFish]

OpenTTD is one of my favourite games. I would absolutely love it if it was listed in my steam library like all my other games. Having automatic updates would be fabulous as well. I'm sure many other users would love this as well. It would also be cool to have the hours played tracked so I can show my friends how much I play

[KatherineOfSky]

OpenTTD is one of my favourite games. I would absolutely love it if it was listed in my steam library like all my other games. Having automatic updates would be fabulous as well. I'm sure many other users would love this as well. It would also be cool to have the hours played tracked so I can show my friends how much I play

I completely agree. If there are no legal hurdles, it makes complete sense to put Open TTD on Steam. I played the original TT when it first came out... then TTD... and I remember playing hundreds of hours in it as a young person. I lost track of it for a while, then came back a few years ago to find this very forum, and TTD being distributed for free! (Queue happy dance )

Nowadays, I play so many games, I don't check individual web sites/forums, so having OpenTTD on Steam would be a huge convenience for me.

I'm betting that there are a lot of gamers like me who don't even know that OpenTTD exists. Having a presence on Steam would ensure an increase in the playerbase, and very likely an influx of new creative ideas on playing the game.

TBH, I can't see why people would object to having this wonderful game on Steam.

[orudge]

And what would a lawsuit do, anyhow? He'd have to file suit in every country against each individual developer who has worked on the code.

The domain name is registered under my name, though (although not the hosting itself)... I would prefer not to get sued!

It would be nice to have OpenTTD on Steam, and it would no doubt be convenient for many people, but I'm just not sure it wouldn't potentially be a "step too far". I would say the same if we were to release an "official" version on the iOS App Store too.

[kamnet]

And what would a lawsuit do, anyhow? He'd have to file suit in every country against each individual developer who has worked on the code.

The domain name is registered under my name, though (although not the hosting itself)... I would prefer not to get sued!

It would be nice to have OpenTTD on Steam, and it would no doubt be convenient for many people, but I'm just not sure it wouldn't potentially be a "step too far". I would say the same if we were to release an "official" version on the iOS App Store too.

Lawsuit wouldn't be the first step regarding the domain name. Binding arbitration through the UN is actually the first step. And the worst case scenario is that you'd lose the domain, in which case you just register a new domain, move the hosting of any files off to torrents, publish how one can obtain the torrents and you're likely legally clear.

[orudge]

Well, I more mean that their legal team (especially with Chris being based in Scotland) could just go for me on the basis that I own the domain and run this place! Not sure if it's likely, mind you, but would rather not find out...

[SilverSurferZzZ]

In my opinion is so simple... OTTD in Steam or similars: NO.

This is a independent and free proyect, put this program on commercial sites is contradictory.

[kamnet]

Well, I more mean that their legal team (especially with Chris being based in Scotland) could just go for me on the basis that I own the domain and run this place! Not sure if it's likely, mind you, but would rather not find out...

Oh, I thought you meant you owned OpenTTD.org. If it's just TT-Forums.net, there's no basis for a lawsuit. You run a discussion board about several video games. You might be asked to clean up certain content which blatantly infringes on copyright. But it would be pretty drastic of a court to rule that you can't even talk about something which may or may not infringe on copyright.

[HaydenRead]

In my opinion is so simple... OTTD in Steam or similars: NO.

This is a independent and free proyect, put this program on commercial sites is contradictory.

Not sure how putting OpenTTD on a Software Distribution platform for free would be contradictary to it being an independent and free project.
In fact even though if I put it on Steam I would make it free, the license does allow the application to be sold...

Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money?
Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)

The domain name is registered under my name, though (although not the hosting itself)... I would prefer not to get sued!

It would be nice to have OpenTTD on Steam, and it would no doubt be convenient for many people, but I'm just not sure it wouldn't potentially be a "step too far". I would say the same if we were to release an "official" version on the iOS App Store too.

My understanding is that the code has not been copied, so no copyright breaches, the only thing I can possibly see would be a Trademark breach, in that the TTD in OpenTTD stands for "Transport Tycoon Deluxe"... If that was the issue, then the fix would be to rename from OpenTTD to something else... (However this is based on how Copyright law works where I live, and may be different in other countries)...

If there was any issue, I image the first result would be a takedown request for the game on Steam...

[andythenorth]

I started writing a post about how easy it would be (or not) to get OpenTTD effectively shut down.

Then I deleted that post, because:
(1) don't play armchair lawyer on the internet.
(2) don't help hostile actors by discussing in public where the potential weaknesses are.

[orudge]

Oh, I thought you meant you owned OpenTTD.org. If it's just TT-Forums.net, there's no basis for a lawsuit.

I own both. Shutting down the web site or the forums would of course not shut down the project as a whole, and in practice it may well be that everything is fine and dandy anyway, but putting OpenTTD onto a commercial games store (even as a free game), especially one where the official game (or at least its sequel) can be found, may just be a little too provocative.

[Pilot]

Wasn't there an interview or something with Chris Sawyer that mentioned OTTD, and he basically said he didn't mind, as long as it was kept small or something like that?

[orudge]

I don't remember ever seeing OpenTTD explicitly referenced in an interview. Chris has talked about "the community" and I think some mention of "fan add-ons" or something was made once, but he was generally of the opinion that he liked his games the way he made them, bugs and all, and wasn't a fan of "design by committee".