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 Post subject: Hello, need some help
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Hello,
My name is Julian I am 23 (this is my offcial introduction to the the forums) and I recently picked up openttd because I had an accident at work that makes my left hand worthless for the next couple of months. I always liked this game but never became very good at it.
So I went online, looked at some stuff and got to this point (current savepoint attached).
So I have a couple of questions. (I was going for a big network)
-Where can I find noob friendly guides into better stations and cross roads designs?
-How bad/good am I doing?
-and last, i've seen a couple of alternatives to oppenttd, like simultrans and others... did i pick up the right one?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:30 pm 
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Your results show that you "just started", but at the same time I can clearly see that you are on the right path to being a good builder.

If you want to become good - like seriously good, the best option is to join openttdcoop.org, most of the things will probably look scary from the start, but the people there - on the IRC - will explain them to you happily.

OpenTTD is a game which offers a lot of complexity and interesting things, so the best "tutorials" are explanations which you can find on wiki.openttdcoop.org, eventually screenshots of various things in the junctionary on the wiki.

I personally have not played the other "similar" games you refer to, but OpenTTD offers a lot more, if you want to build large complex networks.

- you use pre-signals, that is good!
- making large scale is always great, just always try to expand, get more trains, expand again, etc.

- you could use some general building rules which you can get the hang of at openttdcoop

See you there :P

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:05 pm 
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Hey, welcome.

Please post some screenshots, as it's a lot easier for us to see how you're getting on that way.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:44 am 
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I do not think otdcoop is the best or the only way to go.
First of all, ottdcoop servers use different penality settings, that can get confusing.
Not to mention that i personaly do not allways like the style they use.
I do not say its bad or something.

but, one can become a good builder without ottdcoop's paradigms (implented).


What.. one needs to become a good builder if You ask me, is challanges.
Allso the forum here is verry helpfull about certain problems.
Like showing a station that does not work as good as it shuld, and asking for advices.
Surely someone will link the ottdcoop style solution, witch is not a bad one, but not the only one.
But there will be other style of station shown too, witch all should be considered so one can develop
a personal build style. And not become a template replicator.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:42 am 
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I don't think there is _one_ #openttdcoop style, what V basically meant is that it is a nice and helpful community for learning to build big and complex networks. Also the people there never stopped learning and improving...

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:47 pm 
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There is not "one #openttdcoop-style", but there are lots of other styles as well.

#openttdcoop would never produce a world like this: (12MB Screenshot) :)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:54 pm 
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You're a naughty, naughty man Eddi.

That is one of the finest things I've ever seen OTTD do.

Bravo.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Astounding.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Just one thing to make clear: openttdcoop is not about "template replication" but about understanding every detail how things work, and using that to the best potential in a network.
I did not say it is the only way, but I am quite sure it is the "best" way for learning to build for high traffic, and as the original question was about "going to do a big network", I doubt you can argue anything is more fitting than openttdcoop.
And as Ammler says, there is always a space to learn and get help for anyone; and I strongly believe we are able to build anything. The fact that networks like Eddi posted does not make too much sense and/or do not provide any chanllenge for us, therefore we do not build them, does not mean we cannot build it.

After all, if someone comes up with any idea and is able to justify it, it is used. Which is proved by over 250 different games which took place on our servers.
That you have not found what you want to see in our archives does not mean it cannot be done there. Simply because we understand how the game works to the detail.

Perhaps you should enlighten us how to do *the other* styles and eventually link to some place where we could learn them. I linked to my sources, now is your turn instead of declaring us "template replicators" and similar, which only shows that you are uninformed about what we actually do.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:09 pm 
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The efficiency v realism v whatever debate is no longer of interest to me.

Each to their own. I like realism, but I like watching *established* forum players doing efficiency right

What I don't like is these little computer fags turning up because "it's a new game and we HAVE TO BEAT IT OMG" and raping the s*** out of map space by building unnecessary big templated junctions.

But we've been here before :P

ANYway - you have to find your own building style that suits you. Maybe you want to build like V and take on the efficiency of some parts of the forum. Maybe you want to follow my (in this case, Eddi's) path and take the realistic route.

The joy of OTTD is that each is catered for.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:15 pm 
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It is a debate which is neither interesting, neither leads anywhere. As you say, to each their own. But if I post a link somewhere and I get a reply stating ... various things without constructively adding to the discussion, I felt like I should address that :P

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:22 am 
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Dave W wrote:
The efficiency v realism v whatever debate is no longer of interest to me.

Each to their own. I like realism, but I like watching *established* forum players doing efficiency right

I think that everyone on this forum can appreciate proper building, whether it be realistic, efficient or just a nice ball of spaghetti. As long as it is appealing to the yes then it is good :)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:34 pm 
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i'm getting older..
as i can not find where i wrote ottdcoop players are template replicators.

but i do remember mentioning that ottdcoop is not the only way to be a good builder.
and there is no proof i made a mistake stating it.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:54 am 
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2457 wrote:
a personal build style. And not become a template replicator.


but it should not really hurt us, as we are #openttdcoop (not ottdcoop) ;-)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Dave W wrote:
What I don't like is these little computer fags turning up because "it's a new game and we HAVE TO BEAT IT OMG" and raping the s*** out of map space by building unnecessary big templated junctions.


Ah, you're referring to "Call of Duty Syndrome" :) Symptoms include the rampant need to "beat" a game and "be the best" at the exclusion of actual fun.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Dave W wrote:
What I don't like is these little computer fags turning up because "it's a new game and we HAVE TO BEAT IT OMG" and raping the s*** out of map space by building unnecessary big templated junctions.

Never seen that at openttdcoop.
Some building rules are fixed in most games (like double bridges/tunnels for main lines and a signal density of 2), but those are really required for our typical levels of traffic. In general, every hub is unique*.
Some station designs are used multiple times... well, the it is hard to build 3000+ stations with 3000+ completely different layouts (assuming >10 major stations per game).

*in other words, the archive contains some 2000-4000 different hubs


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:47 pm 
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Alright I see we have a certain problem here ... jabalma started this topic, asking what could he do better, apparently stating that he aims to build a big network. I dared to give him a few hints how to improve it and links where he could find more info and help.

May I ask you to stick with the topic and constructively suggest your solutions instead of talking complete crap about openttdcoop? Vast majority of your statements are massively untrue due to the fact that you apparently are very uninformed about openttdcoop so I have no idea why do you even talk about us as if you knew, especially in this way.

I will not really try to argue against your stupid points because firstly they make no sense and just show that you have no idea what are you talking about or how our community works, but realize this: #openttdcoop is a community of people who suggest ideas, and successful ideas which the author can justify (or sometimes ideas "just cause") are used and played with. If you state -whatever- is impossible on openttdcoop and you can do it, then it only shows that you have not tried to suggest such an idea, do not have a justification, or any other similar reason.
The fact that things get large is just from the large amount of traffic we get - which makes sense in a global map scale network. All constructions are built as small as possible (well generally speaking), to handle the traffic. Saying that it is pointless or unnecessary only shows you have not tried.

Of course, there are some concepts and ideas which could be considered as "replication" from systematic point of view, but firstly there is so many of them and they can be massively adjusted by the builder so they are no longer even recognizable from the original "template". Also, what are YOUR ideas? Which techniques do you use? Replicating large PBS cross in front of every station and thats it? Bravo!

On a side note about the gaming syndrome like beating the game or being the best at a game, you should realize that you play OpenTTD against yourself and try to beat your past results to improve them, make them better. Or just create and invent new designs, new systems, and use more and more features effectively. All in all, I think it is kind of hard to beat yourself, and our archives prove that OpenTTD provides seemingly endless amount of variation and complexity, so the cap you could potentially reach to have the "best" result of your game seems to be unreachable - not only for the fact that there are so many ways how to play the game, but mainly because each of the ways could be improved, expanded, systematically changed for better od different results.

Please note that I also consider the way of your realistic playing completely brainless, retarded, lazy and making no sense, furtherly supported by "excusing" it by using the word realistic. Suggest YOUR way to the person who asks for help instead of picking on my suggestions, constructive hints and links to the (very arguably) best source on learning OpenTTD as it is.

Have a nice day

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Overall it looks okay, but I have some personal preferences that force me to play with a different style. I play with realistic acceleration, which allows trains to keep their speed on hills if they have enough power, but results in a speed penalty with consecutive turns (in the same direction) shorter than the train length. I also play with break downs disabled.

On your station entrances: change the entry signal to a path signal and remove the exit signs, allowing multiple trains in the block, so a train that come from the depots doesn't block trains that just go straight to the station. Basically the same at the exits, change the signal before the merge to path signals if there are multiple exits. So, basically the right versions of the first two stations here, but then applied to your stations.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:35 pm 
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mfb wrote:
Dave W wrote:
What I don't like is these little computer fags turning up because "it's a new game and we HAVE TO BEAT IT OMG" and raping the s*** out of map space by building unnecessary big templated junctions.

Never seen that at openttdcoop.


Never suggested it was in coop. Try reading posts properly before jumping on the defensive, and stop being a massive bell.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:44 pm 
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*Removed because I really can't be bothered with this again haha*

OTTD is OTTD. Play it, make love to it, enjoy it.

That's all I do.

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