[Base Music] OpenMSX v0.3.1

OpenTTD is a fully open-sourced reimplementation of TTD, written in C++, boasting improved gameplay and many new features.

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by orudge » 03 Jan 2010 16:49

Well, for this project, I believe that is the case, indeed.

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by Zephyris » 03 Jan 2010 17:06

So the consensus is MIDI as the format of choice then? Can anyone recommend a good FOSS midi editor? It has been a while since I have done some composing but i would love to help this project if I can...

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by jvlomax » 04 Jan 2010 15:50

:bow: Lilypond

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by AnthonyB » 05 Jan 2010 00:23

Lilypond is great for creating sheet music but I wouldn't want to use it much for creating midi files. The midi files that lilypond creates are more for "proof listening" to a score than to use for anything else.

I don't have any suggestions for creating midi compositions though. I do know that Rosegarden can be used as a midi editor but I've never used it for that purpose.

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by Rubidium » 05 Jan 2010 06:53

Can Lilypond's sheet music be loaded by another program that does generate good sounding MIDI? Because then it's just a matter of making sure the final MIDI gets 'compiled' by that other program and there is no reason not to use Lilypond for just making the sheet music.

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by jvlomax » 05 Jan 2010 07:20

Idi is the same no matter what program you use. The only difference is that some programs can save delay, reverb, sustain etc. To a midi file. Wheather you use a £600 sheet music editor or lilypond, the midi file will load the same set if instruments and play the same notes. Only way a midi file could sound different is if it loaded another midi bank than GM

Rosegarden is good too, but I find it much more confusing, but that could be because I'm trained in classical music notation :wink:

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by Zephyris » 05 Jan 2010 08:51

I havn't tried it yet but http://www.musescore.org looks very promising. It has a full GUI input, seems to support score playback for a preview as you write and exports to midi...

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by -lucas- » 05 Jan 2010 10:13

I'm using Nuendo 4, which is a bit of overkill on one side and a bit of a pain on the other side (i don't have the midi add ons).

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by -lucas- » 05 Jan 2010 10:19

jvlomax wrote:Midi is the same no matter what program you use. The only difference is that some programs can save delay, reverb, sustain etc. To a midi file.
Going to disagree a little bit there :)

One is meant for midi playback of sheet music, the other one is meant for midi file creation.

For instance, i can imagine that some sheet music editors only use very rough velocity editing (p, mf, f, ff, etc) while in a piano roll you can change velocities in 128 steps. Furthermore, using a piano editor, you have a much more precise timing grid, while a sheet music editor would like to use the 'standard' note timings (sixteenth notes, quarter notes, half notes, etc). A violin or piano part sounds much more convincing if you use tiny timing differences between the different notes in a chord, for instance, and also things like drumrolls require this.

That doesn't mean that you can't use a sheet music editor for midi file creation of course, or that no sheet music editors have these features :)

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by jvlomax » 05 Jan 2010 14:08

-lucas- wrote:A violin or piano part sounds much more convincing if you use tiny timing differences between the different notes in a chord, for instance

Never thought of that. I guess i just kind of depends on what you are used to. If you are used to using a midi editor it will be easier to use that. I've only ever composed music through sheet so that seems so much easier to me

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by AnthonyB » 06 Jan 2010 05:28

Sorry to derail the thread a bit with bringing up lilypond.

The one issue that I know it has when generating midi is that it uses volume level to adjust for dynamics instead of using note velocity. It might work for some instruments but if I play a midi like that back on my digital piano it uses note velocity and ignores midi volume messages which leads to no dynamics. Pretty sure that is the way of things in the stable lilypond version. Maybe the current development branch is different.

If I was any good at composing I might give the music replacement project a try but the best I can do is learn from sheet music and then nothing too complicated.

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by supermatt » 06 Jan 2010 08:31

I want to contribute, but my composing skills are average at best. What I am better at doing is transcribing music I hear into written notes, or in this case, a midi file. Would this be useful? I think earlier in this thread there were artists with mp3s willing to contribute. I could take their songs and "midi-fy" them.
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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by planetmaker » 06 Jan 2010 09:11

supermatt wrote:I want to contribute, but my composing skills are average at best. (...) willing to contribute.
Well, just do it and show some its results. Only feedback upon that will tell whether it is better than anything else which just *might* show up (there's always a huge discrepancy between *want to do* and *actually did*). Projects like this live from what people actually do, not what they could do or are willing to do ;-)

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by jvlomax » 06 Jan 2010 10:41

Sound like an idea supermatt, just rember to get the composer permission :P

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by Ammler » 06 Jan 2010 14:15

If you take a mp3 song and convert that to midi, do you still need composer permission? I mean the midi will be different quite a lot.

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by Zephyris » 06 Jan 2010 14:47

Transcribing is the audio equivalent of tracing, and you definately need the author's permission for both.

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by Ammler » 06 Jan 2010 20:35

if you copy a image and change around 10% you don't need permission anymore, do you?

So, if you use mp3 instead of using the music sheet for a midi file, I am quite sure you will have a lot differences to the original, so you think it is still needed?

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by kamnet » 06 Jan 2010 20:46

Ammler wrote:if you copy a image and change around 10% you don't need permission anymore, do you?

So, if you use mp3 instead of using the music sheet for a midi file, I am quite sure you will have a lot differences to the original, so you think it is still needed?
Yep, it's still needed.

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by -lucas- » 06 Jan 2010 20:58

Ammler wrote:if you copy a image and change around 10% you don't need permission anymore, do you?

So, if you use mp3 instead of using the music sheet for a midi file, I am quite sure you will have a lot differences to the original, so you think it is still needed?
If you play a Chopin piece from sheet music on a Fender Rhodes instead of a piano, is it still the same Chopin piece? The Rhodes player will most likely have timing differences from the pianist that played it on the piano, so both sound and timing are different!
Also, as a response to the comparison to visuals: i've heard that the first 15 seconds of a painting can be copied freely and that every second afterwards is $10 per second.

Does that make sense? :) It's two different mediums and very dangerous to assume same rules apply. For music, they absolutely don't. There's copyright applied to the notes you write, not to the production. I've seen music in this topic being compared to software code, to images, but that's not comparable at all. So yes, you absolutely need permission from the original composer :)

(which is why the soundalike that i did for the theme is really on the edge of what's allowed - it's just different enough to be a unique piece the way it is now, but i didn't dare to go closer ;-))

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Re: OTTD Music Replacement Project

Post by Ailure » 06 Jan 2010 23:56

-lucas- wrote:The goal was to be instantly recognizable by old school players, but still be different enough from the original.
Close to the TTD songs than TT, but I can see elements taken from both games. The ending of the song is so similar enough to the main TT theme, that I was actually annoyed at it being diffrent there (it just sounds wrong then :P). I can however understand wanting to be on the safe side... legality-wise.

(I always thought the songs that was added with TTD sounded quite... a bit different in style compared to the older songs).

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