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OpenTTD is a fully open-sourced reimplementation of TTD, written in C++, boasting improved gameplay and many new features.

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by bleistift2 » 05 Jun 2012 16:03

Jogio wrote:@ bleistift2
STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SMOOTH_SCROLLING_HELPTEXT: [...] wenn dieser Punkt auf der Weltkarte angeklickt wird -- "Dieser" requires an explicit, previous mentioning of the point. Suggestion: wenn ein Punkt auf der Weltkarte [...]
I have to think of a good translation here.
What don't you like in (at/of?) mine?
Jogio wrote: Begrenze die Höchstgeschwindigkeit eines Zuges durch die jeweiligen Höchstgeschwindigkeiten der mitgeführten Waggons, auch wenn der Zug eigentlich schneller fahren könnte
What do you think of "Lokomotive" or "Triebwagen" instead of "Zug"?
Jogio wrote: currently: Hineingezoomter Screenshot
what about: Screenshot in Nahaufnahme
I like it.

I found something more: In the settings, it says the "Maßeinheiten" are "Britisch", "metrisch" and "SI-Basiseinheiten".
I think it should be "Imperial" and "Metrisch".

-------
OT: I can't resist asking you: What's wrong in this sentence?
[quote="In my English exam, I"]IThe story is narrated in the I-perspective. This causes the reader to identify with the main character. [grammar mistake][/quote] Do I need to use the gerund here?
If my English sounds odd or is wrong, I'd appreciate it if you corrected me.

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by michael blunck » 05 Jun 2012 21:25

Jogio wrote: STR_CONFIG_SETTING_WAGONSPEEDLIMITS_HELPTEXT :Begrenze die Höchstgeschwindigkeit eines Zuges durch die jeweiligen Höchstgeschwindigkeiten der mitgeführten Waggons, auch wenn der Zug eigentlich schneller fahren könnte
Makes no sense. What you mean is "... auch wenn die Lok eigentlich schneller fahren könnte", because the "train" consists of locomotive and wagons/coaches, right?

BTW,
Jogio wrote: STR_CONFIG_SETTING_STOP_LOCATION_HELPTEXT :Die Position, an der Züge standardmäßig am Bahnsteig anhalten. Bei 'am Anfang' hält der Zug an, sobald er mit allen Waggons in den Bahnhof eingefahren ist. [...]
"Waggons" (freight cars) isn´t the right term because a train might also be composed from coaches (Reisezugwagen).

BTW2, maybe we should use "Triebfahrzeug" if either a locomotive or a rail car or MU is meant?

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by Jogio » 06 Jun 2012 06:08

Makes no sense. What you mean is "... auch wenn die Lok eigentlich schneller fahren könnte", because the "train" consists of locomotive and wagons/coaches, right?
Ok, but if you write it like this, the next person complains that this translation isn't correct because a train can have multiple Loks.

"Waggons" (freight cars) isn´t the right term because a train might also be composed from coaches (Reisezugwagen).
I think it isn't right, that "Waggon" is only used for freight cars.

Here's the definition from Wikipedia:
Ein Eisenbahnwagen; auch als Waggon oder Wagon (Aussprache: va'goñ, süddt./österr.: va'go:n) (Plural: Waggons, süddt./österr. auch: Wagone, Waggone (va'go:ne)) bezeichnet; ist ein Schienenfahrzeug ohne eigenen Antrieb.

@Bleistift2
I found something more: In the settings, it says the "Maßeinheiten" are "Britisch", "metrisch" and "SI-Basiseinheiten".
I think it should be "Imperial" and "Metrisch".
"Britisch" ist wohl eher umgangssprachlich. Ich finde es aber eigentlich verständlich, auch wenn "Imperial" vielleicht die offizielle Bezeichnung ist.

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by michael blunck » 06 Jun 2012 07:32

Jogio wrote:
mb wrote: Makes no sense. What you mean is "... auch wenn die Lok eigentlich schneller fahren könnte", because the "train" consists of locomotive and wagons/coaches, right?
Ok, but if you write it like this, the next person complains that this translation isn't correct because a train can have multiple Loks.
Then use "Lok(s)", "Lokomotive(n)" or "Triebfahrzeug(e)".
Jogio wrote:
mb wrote:
STR_CONFIG_SETTING_STOP_LOCATION_HELPTEXT :Die Position, an der Züge standardmäßig am Bahnsteig anhalten. Bei 'am Anfang' hält der Zug an, sobald er mit allen Waggons in den Bahnhof eingefahren ist. [...]
"Waggons" (freight cars) isn´t the right term because a train might also be composed from coaches (Reisezugwagen).
I think it isn't right, that "Waggon" is only used for freight cars.
"Wagen" is a very general term for a non-driven vehicle, but the connotation of "Waggon" is indeed more related to freight cars. Nobody would say "Im ICE von Köln nach Hamburg sassen wir im dritten Waggon".

And BTW, the correct terms would be "Güterwagen" resp "Reisezugwagen" (-> "Sitzwagen", "Liegewagen", "Speisewagen", "Schlafwagen", ...). I have a LOT of railway books and "Waggon" is nearly never used, in contrast to "Wagen".


So, my proposal would be to use "Wagen" instead of "Waggon" if refering to the super set of both "freight cars" and "coaches".

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by Eddi » 06 Jun 2012 10:16

michael blunck wrote: "Wagen" is a very general term for a non-driven vehicle, but the connotation of "Waggon" is indeed more related to freight cars. Nobody would say "Im ICE von Köln nach Hamburg sassen wir im dritten Waggon".
i don't agree with this view. "Wagen" and "Waggon" are completely synonymous for me...
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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by bleistift2 » 06 Jun 2012 12:22

michael blunck wrote:
Jogio wrote: STR_CONFIG_SETTING_WAGONSPEEDLIMITS_HELPTEXT :Begrenze die Höchstgeschwindigkeit eines Zuges durch die jeweiligen Höchstgeschwindigkeiten der mitgeführten Waggons, auch wenn der Zug eigentlich schneller fahren könnte
Makes no sense. What you mean is "... auch wenn die Lok eigentlich schneller fahren könnte", because the "train" consists of locomotive and wagons/coaches, right?
Right.
Eddi wrote:
michael blunck wrote: "Wagen" is a very general term for a non-driven vehicle, but the connotation of "Waggon" is indeed more related to freight cars. Nobody would say "Im ICE von Köln nach Hamburg sassen wir im dritten Waggon".
i don't agree with this view. "Wagen" and "Waggon" are completely synonymous for me...
To me too. You can say "Wir saßen im dritten Waggon."

Generally, a helptext should concisely say what an option does; the absolute correctness is subordinate (IMHO).
If my English sounds odd or is wrong, I'd appreciate it if you corrected me.

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by michael blunck » 06 Jun 2012 14:55

Eddi wrote:
michael blunck wrote: "Wagen" is a very general term for a non-driven vehicle, but the connotation of "Waggon" is indeed more related to freight cars. Nobody would say "Im ICE von Köln nach Hamburg sassen wir im dritten Waggon".
i don't agree with this view. "Wagen" and "Waggon" are completely synonymous for me...
Aha.

"Reisezugwaggon", "Sitzwaggon", "Liegewaggon", "Speisewaggon", "Schlafwaggon" ...

Welcome in the Parallel Universe. :P

BTW: http://www.duden.de/suchen/dudenonline/waggon

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by bleistift2 » 06 Jun 2012 16:22

duden.de wrote:Meaning: Wagen der Eisenbahn, besonders Güterwagen
It can mean both. If Wagon only meant freight car, it would say "Güterwagen der Eisenbahn"

The word "Wagen" seems to be the correctest one here:
duden.de wrote:Meaning: dem Transport von Personen oder Gütern dienendes Schienenfahrzeug der Eisenbahn
If my English sounds odd or is wrong, I'd appreciate it if you corrected me.

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by Jogio » 06 Jun 2012 18:31

Aber ein Passagierwagen ist doch auch ein Waggon, auch wenn man nicht so sagt. Waggon ist doch trotzdem der Oberbegriff dafür.
Ein Auto ist ja auch ein Fahrzeug.
Und du wirst auch meistens sagen: Ich fahre mit dem Auto. Und nicht: Ich fahre mit dem Fahrzeug.
Bevor man aber so etwas wie "Wägen" schreibt, finde ich, es wäre besser den Text ganz anders zu übersetzen, ohne "Wägen" oder "Waggons".
(sorry for writing in german)


And second:
I changed this string:

Code: Select all

STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SMOOTH_SCROLLING_HELPTEXT   Lege fest, wie die Hauptansicht zu einer bestimmten Position scrollt, wenn auf die Weltkarte auf den entsprechenden Punkt geklickt wird
in

Code: Select all

Lege fest, auf welche Weise die Hauptansicht an eine bestimmte Position wechselt, z.B. wenn ein Punkt auf der Weltkarte angeklickt wird oder der Standort eines Bahnhofs angezeigt werden soll. Ist diese Option eingeschaltet, schwenkt die Ansicht über die Karte, bis sie am gewünschten Punkt angekommen ist. Ist sie ausgeschaltet, springt die Ansicht sofort an die gewünschte Position
It has better description of the function now, like the english original.
After some thinking I found a solution without "scrollen".

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by Eddi » 06 Jun 2012 18:41

michael blunck wrote:"Reisezugwaggon", "Sitzwaggon", "Liegewaggon", "Speisewaggon", "Schlafwaggon" ...

Welcome in the Parallel Universe. :P
i don't see the problem... it sounds equally "strange" as "Güterwaggon"...
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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by michael blunck » 06 Jun 2012 18:48

Jogio wrote:Aber ein Passagierwagen ist doch auch ein Waggon, auch wenn man nicht so sagt. [...]
Aber ein Passagierwagen ist doch auch ein Waggon, auch wenn man nicht so sagt.

Simply, because "wagon" (-> "waggon") is a French borrowing.


Believe me. I own this standard railway book:
EFA6.1.jpg
EFA6.1.jpg (34.96 KiB) Viewed 1757 times
and it does not contain the word "Waggon". Not a single occurence.

BTW, did you read the examples for "Waggon" on that Duden page? :cool:

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by bleistift2 » 06 Jun 2012 19:09

Jogio wrote: Bevor man aber so etwas wie "Wägen" schreibt, finde ich, es wäre besser den Text ganz anders zu übersetzen, ohne "Wägen" oder "Waggons".
Why don't you like the plural forms? Wägen is allowed as it is used in southern germany, in some parts even more than "Wagen". And Waggons is just the normal plural of Waggon.
If my English sounds odd or is wrong, I'd appreciate it if you corrected me.

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by Eddi » 06 Jun 2012 19:16

the game is translated in standard german, not southern german, so "Wägen" is completely out of the question...
michael blunck wrote:and it does not contain the word "Waggon". Not a single occurence.
sure, switching back and forth would be considered bad style... that has nothing to do with the discussion...
Last edited by Eddi on 06 Jun 2012 19:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by Jogio » 06 Jun 2012 19:19

Wag­gon, Wa­gon, der

Wortart: Substantiv, maskulin

Häufigkeit:
RechtschreibungNach oben

Von Duden empfohlene Schreibung:
Waggon

Alternative Schreibung:
Wagon

Worttrennung:
Wag|gon, Wa|gon

BedeutungNach oben

Wagen der Eisenbahn, besonders GüterwagenWaggon© R. Rossberg, Murnau
Beispiele

einen Waggon beladen, ankuppeln, anhängen
drei Waggons (die Ladungen dreier Waggons) Kohle

Wussten Sie schon?Nach oben
Dieses Wort gehört zum Wortschatz des Zertifikats Deutsch.
Synonyme zu WaggonNach oben
Eisenbahnwagen, Güterwagen


Some say "(Eisenbahn)Wagen", some "(Eisenbahn)Waggon". It has the same meaning. They are synonyms for the same thing. The authors prefered "Wagen" and used strict this word. Every good author would do this.
We need to stop this endless discussion, please Michael. :-)

Believe me. I own a wooden train set. :cool:

Edit: to remember:

Code: Select all

sobald er mit allen Waggons in den Bahnhof eingefahren ist.
you need plural here

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by bleistift2 » 06 Jun 2012 19:28

I agree with Jogio. "Wagen" has all the meanings we need and there is only one way to spell it correctly.
If my English sounds odd or is wrong, I'd appreciate it if you corrected me.

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by michael blunck » 06 Jun 2012 19:45

bleistift2 wrote:I agree with Jogio. "Wagen" has all the meanings we need and there is only one way to spell it correctly.
Obviously you agree with me. I proposed to use "Wagen" instead of "Waggon". Jogio proposes to use the opposite.

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by bleistift2 » 06 Jun 2012 19:47

Sorry :D
If my English sounds odd or is wrong, I'd appreciate it if you corrected me.

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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by michael blunck » 06 Jun 2012 20:16

Eddi wrote:
mb wrote: and it does not contain the word "Waggon". Not a single occurence.
sure, switching back and forth would be considered bad style... that has nothing to do with the discussion...
That´s not the primary reason, and o/c it has to do with this discussion: "Waggon" is an ancient term which seems to stem from the beginning of German railway business [*]. It´s either a French or English borrowing. But very soon the German term "Wagen" had become accepted, and it is indeed the modern technical term as well. Even for freight cars, take a look at http://www.gueterwagenkatalog.rail.dbsc ... enkatalog/

[*] although in Bavaria, "Wagen" resp "Wägen" had been used continuously, already before building Nürnberg-Fürth

No "Waggon" to spot, far and wide. :p

I second your objection above ("the game is translated in standard german, not southern german, so "Wägen" is completely out of the question..."), and for the same reason, we should use "Wagen" instead of "Waggon".

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Stahlrundbrücke

Post by bleistift2 » 15 Jun 2012 19:17

There are two bridges called "Stahlrundbrücke". Is this intended?
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Re: Germans: help translating...

Post by Eddi » 16 Jun 2012 00:49

i think "Röhrenbrücke" would be more appropriate, but i don't think two bridges with the same name is a bug.

PS: how one would build a structurally sound bridge from (pure?) "Silizium" escapes my imagination somewhat...
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