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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:32 am 
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Inspired by the recent challenge post, I thought I'd make a challenge of my own.

You can use the save games provided (I'm sorry, I used an obscure nightly to make them, hope that doesn't cause too many problems).

The first save game is an example of a game that has just reached the winning conditions.

The second save game is for you to start up and try the challenge for yourself.

Conditions
[*]You must have a rating of 1000 before 2050
[*]Whoever reaches a rating of 1000 earliest (ie. in game time) is the current winner
[*]Please do not change any settings that will effect gameplay
[*]Please destroy any unused stations and any unused station tiles
[*]Road vehicles less than 2 years old do not count toward vehicle number (otherwise you could just buy 120 road vehicles to fulfil the vehicles condition)

Considerations
[*]Your freight trains will be much heavier than usual (x15), so be careful of hills.
[*]Expanding towns is going to be crucial, do it as quick and as early as you can.
[*]Money is NOT taken into account when deciding a winner unless two people achieve the winning conditions on exactly the same day. So don't worry too much about beefing up your train networks as industry production increases.
[*]For those planning on using lots of RVs, the best profit makers are generally those with high capacity, I spent half my time on my previous game destroying RV goods routes because they hardly bought in any money compared to buses.
[*]You may turn off breakdowns!

if you have any problems loading the save games (or just really object to the map for some reason), go ahead and use the cfg file, then load up a random map, but dont change the map size or anything to do with the terrain

Current Winner: Elvish Magi of "Ninhill Transport" in 1997

Previous Winner: Qu@rks of "Qu@rks & Co." in year 2018

EDIT: Yeah, the map is supposed to be that small!


Attachments:
1000 rating achieved 2023.sav [93.84 KiB]
Downloaded 214 times
openttd.cfg [5.62 KiB]
Downloaded 165 times
File comment: Map generated using a stable beta, to help avoid compatability issues
1000 rating challenge.sav [28.85 KiB]
Downloaded 192 times

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Or even better, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 2
Or better still, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 3
Or, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 4

Or try my scenario instead!

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Last edited by PouncingAnt on Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:34 am, edited 10 times in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:01 am 
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nice challenge. i might participate in this, although the map is freakin' impossible to play.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:04 am 
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The map is supposed to be difficult, but feel free to just use the settings, and generate a new map. I'm interested in seeing what other people do when crammed for space :wink:

EDIT: After running the map for a few years I decided to pull it. It was rather boring, and nothing to do after the first couple of years. Since noone else has started I've put a new save into the first post. I dont plan on changing it this time. BTW its made with the latest nightly

_________________
NB: the below challenges are still open for submission, so feel free to perform necromancy on them!
Try the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge
Or even better, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 2
Or better still, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 3
Or, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 4

Or try my scenario instead!

-(A lazy) OpenTTD Japanese Translator-
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"You get what you pay for, so pay attention!"

Patches:
Company Station Stats


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:34 am 
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Is breakdowns turned off? If so, I'll probably get hold of that nightly and have a go. The reason I ask about the breakdowns is because you can't really compare attempts when everyone's trains have different reliabilities.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:32 am 
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If you use the GRFs in the savegame (ie. ONLY the default vehicles) then using different trains has nothing to do with it, does it?

Besides, I'd be surprised at anyone trying to cram 80 train stations and the tracks required to link them up into a map that small.

So far as breakdowns go, I'm not convinced they will make a significant difference to rail networks on this map, as there simply isn't enough room for the bulk of trains required for it to become a major hassle. Once you have the asia star you probably will only notice the effect of breakdowns on overcrowded roads.

I'm inclined to let you use breakdowns, because it shouldn't make a huge difference, but I think a handicap should be incurred. perhaps +2 years for turning it off completely, +1 year for reducing them. Hows that sound to you?

EDIT: changed 1st post to reflect the content of this post

_________________
NB: the below challenges are still open for submission, so feel free to perform necromancy on them!
Try the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge
Or even better, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 2
Or better still, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 3
Or, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 4

Or try my scenario instead!

-(A lazy) OpenTTD Japanese Translator-
-(A lazy) PNGcodec user-
"You get what you pay for, so pay attention!"

Patches:
Company Station Stats


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:55 pm 
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Well, in the last challenge I couldn't use the AisaStar train because the max reliability stayed so low. I remember thinking at the time 'This is the last challenge I'm doing with breakdowns on'. I'm not sure if the trains have the same max reliability for everyone or if it changes each time you start.

How much difference turning them off would make I don't know either - I haven't even seen this map yet, but 2 years seems a lot. One thing for sure though - they are annoying, even more so in a competition game for the randomness they bring. I might still do it, but it would be much better IMO if they were off for everyone in competition/challenge games. Certainly I would enjoy them more.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:42 pm 
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Hmm.

I've considered what you said, and the fact so few people have replied, and decided to remove breakdowns from the rules. I think doing so will make the challenge more bearable after all. As it is, its a bit of a frustrating challenge.

I'll change the first post to reflect this.

_________________
NB: the below challenges are still open for submission, so feel free to perform necromancy on them!
Try the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge
Or even better, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 2
Or better still, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 3
Or, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 4

Or try my scenario instead!

-(A lazy) OpenTTD Japanese Translator-
-(A lazy) PNGcodec user-
"You get what you pay for, so pay attention!"

Patches:
Company Station Stats


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:54 am 
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@PouncingAnt: I would add the restriction that every part of a station must be serviced. It gets very easy late game to make the station target by adding a truck, bus, and heliport to every station, etc. (This clarifies your point that unused stations must be removed.)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:27 am 
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Good idea, thanks. I'll have to edit the first post to be more specific :wink:

_________________
NB: the below challenges are still open for submission, so feel free to perform necromancy on them!
Try the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge
Or even better, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 2
Or better still, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 3
Or, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 4

Or try my scenario instead!

-(A lazy) OpenTTD Japanese Translator-
-(A lazy) PNGcodec user-
"You get what you pay for, so pay attention!"

Patches:
Company Station Stats


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:30 am 
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Ok, thanks, I'll get a nightly and have a go. The x15 freight sounds interesting :)

Actually, needing a nightly to participate might be something that's stopping people from doing this too. I guess one advantage the 0.6.0 betas have is they come with an installer which maybe people find easier (I usually just unzip them so it makes no difference to me). In the past I've installed the betas when they come out, but not usually the nightlies because it's near impossible to find any multi player games with the nighties which is not a problem with the betas. That said, 0.6.0 Beta 3 has a problem where dragging the remove rail tool over an industry causes it to crash which sucks when you haven't saved for a while. Will be good for everyone when 0.6 is released.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:51 am 
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would it therefore not be prudent to design a level that uses the latest beta rather than a nightly for a level?

alsdo is it actually possible to acheive a rating of 1000?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:47 pm 
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mira666 wrote:
would it therefore not be prudent to design a level that uses the latest beta rather than a nightly for a level?

alsdo is it actually possible to acheive a rating of 1000?


I didn't design the level, it is randomly generated. Therefore, using the settings provided in the config file will produce approximately the same results.

I've certainly achieved 1000 ratings on maps that size before, I posted an example on the first post. (I thought I stated that clearly there..) Though I dont remember a time I achieved 1000 without having inflation on (Though it is easily possible on a big enough map)

_________________
NB: the below challenges are still open for submission, so feel free to perform necromancy on them!
Try the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge
Or even better, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 2
Or better still, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 3
Or, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 4

Or try my scenario instead!

-(A lazy) OpenTTD Japanese Translator-
-(A lazy) PNGcodec user-
"You get what you pay for, so pay attention!"

Patches:
Company Station Stats


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:25 pm 
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PouncingAnt wrote:
mira666 wrote:
would it therefore not be prudent to design a level that uses the latest beta rather than a nightly for a level?

alsdo is it actually possible to acheive a rating of 1000?


I didn't design the level, it is randomly generated. Therefore, using the settings provided in the config file will produce approximately the same results.

I've certainly achieved 1000 ratings on maps that size before, I posted an example on the first post. (I thought I stated that clearly there..) Though I dont remember a time I achieved 1000 without having inflation on (Though it is easily possible on a big enough map)



The problem here is that a game saved on a new nightly most likely can't be loaded from 0.5.3 or 0.6.0 Beta. The save game version numbers are different. However, loading a game the other way usually works (0.5.3 can be loaded in anything Higher)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:38 am 
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sforget wrote:
The problem here is that a game saved on a new nightly most likely can't be loaded from 0.5.3 or 0.6.0 Beta. The save game version numbers are different. However, loading a game the other way usually works (0.5.3 can be loaded in anything Higher)


If you thoroughly read this thread, you'll be able to see that I provide a .cfg file that contains all the required settings to generate a random map and difficulty settings to the specifications of the challenge, if handled properly there really is no need for a 0.5.3 or a beta map.
If it's really that fiddly, I'll add a beta map later today.

EDIT: Generated a map using the a stable beta. Added to first post

_________________
NB: the below challenges are still open for submission, so feel free to perform necromancy on them!
Try the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge
Or even better, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 2
Or better still, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 3
Or, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 4

Or try my scenario instead!

-(A lazy) OpenTTD Japanese Translator-
-(A lazy) PNGcodec user-
"You get what you pay for, so pay attention!"

Patches:
Company Station Stats


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:11 am 
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Creating a random map may change the starting conditions though... Could be much harder, of course, but it could also be much easier (less water, more industries, etc.).

Here's my try :)


Attachments:
Qu@rks & Co, 1st Mar 2018.sav [75.03 KiB]
Downloaded 159 times

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:23 am 
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Quite so, it took me a while of generating before I decided on the map that i've used on this thread. But basically the settings keep the game within a certain range I was looking for :wink:

EDIT: I've updated the first thread in you honour. Hope you enjoyed it. I'd be interested in any feedback or comments about your game. Anyway, well done :)

_________________
NB: the below challenges are still open for submission, so feel free to perform necromancy on them!
Try the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge
Or even better, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 2
Or better still, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 3
Or, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 4

Or try my scenario instead!

-(A lazy) OpenTTD Japanese Translator-
-(A lazy) PNGcodec user-
"You get what you pay for, so pay attention!"

Patches:
Company Station Stats


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:07 am 
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Well, it was a challenge. Especially not being able to use trains very much kinda made it hard in the beginning. First thing I did was buy two planes and then left the computer running for about ten years. After than I had some money to build ships, bus stations (some buses had negative income due to the cities being so small), and so on. Then around like 1990 I started optimizing everything. I deleted some road vehicles, built new ones, and even replaced three oil trucks by a train line (bottom of the map). It took a while to get all vehicles to make more profit than € 20,000 a year. Also, I had to further increase the size of the cities in order to be able to build more stations. When I finally reached 80 stations I built some more RVs and ships. Trains don't make much sense with a weight multiplier of x15 (the one coal line that I have profited from the height of the coal mine compared to the height of the power station).

Altogether I'd say it was quite a challenge to optimize things at the end but the beginning was a little... boring? Maybe even annoying because of the few industries that existed at the beginning (I funded two forests later on). As you said, the key is expanding the cities. If you don't expand them, you'll never reach the 80 stations, 120 vehicles, and minimum income of 20k...
But yeah, it was a bit of a pain in the neck in the beginning. I tried trains first, then restarted the game and tried RVs (they didn't make too much profit) and then started with planes. It's lame but it pays. I wouldn't do it again because you only have stuff to do every few years (building a new bus stop and maybe two buses) and the rest of the time you get bored because nothing really happens and no new industries are funded due to the height of the terrain.

However, I must say, I was motivated to do it and got real happy when I noticed I was close.

p.s. We should play a MP game together in coop mode, that would be one hell of a company :-)

EDIT: BTW, I set breakdowns to zero mostly because I hate the sound of it (like the whole train is falling apart) but also because trains are very slow already (weight multiplier x15). I don't think it would have made THAT much of a difference since most of my income was based on planes anyways. Also, I did use station walking (meaning unused tiles) but only because the land was very hilly... I could have changed it later on I guess but I didn't...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:20 am 
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Yeah, I have to admit after restarting maybe 5 times before deciding on planes as the fastest option.

I also agree on the bordem issue too. The beginning is very empty and it takes a ridiculous amount of time for the pace to pick up.

I was surprised how much you used RVs for things like goods and coal. Maybe it was the breakdowns, but I had maybe only one profitable goods RV route in my previous game.

As to the breakdowns, I think the arguments on this page were good enough reason to chuck them, but you're right, the noise of it gets to me somehow too..

I'm glad the challenge kept you motivated. I guess I still need to refine it a lot. I have a few ideas and variations in mind.

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NB: the below challenges are still open for submission, so feel free to perform necromancy on them!
Try the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge
Or even better, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 2
Or better still, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 3
Or, the PouncingAnt National Monopoly Challenge 4

Or try my scenario instead!

-(A lazy) OpenTTD Japanese Translator-
-(A lazy) PNGcodec user-
"You get what you pay for, so pay attention!"

Patches:
Company Station Stats


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:09 pm 
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I only used road vehicles because I needed to get 120 vehicles :P I didn't build the hovercraft ships until like 2 years before I reached a rating of 1000 (and I built them just because I was bored).

The problem with road vehicles is that they don't make money if the distance between the stations is too short. That's why I had to adjust their paths and the stations the served. I you manage to do that efficiently, you're already half way through with this map...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:11 pm 
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As this sounded interesting, I decided to have a go at it and have reached 1000 rating in Jan. 2004:

Attachment:
Elvish Magi, 18th Jan 2004.sav [75.75 KiB]
Downloaded 144 times


I used a random map generated from the cfg file provided, and am running 0.6.0 Beta 3

I'm pretty sure it could be completed a lot quicker than this though - I wasted around 15 years trying to get my bus feeder routes profitable enough, before giving in and running bus services between the towns and I maybe could / should have been more pro-active at killing routes that weren't earning the required £10k.

It's certainly an interesting challenge - it got me using vehicles in ways I don't normally and it was nice to get away from just building rail hubs etc.

All in all, it was very enjoyable - thank you!


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